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Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

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Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#271

Post by palisade »

bananabreakfast wrote: post #266
palisade wrote: post #261

When the pipes in your house malfunction causing gallons of water and feces to spray out of the toilet onto the nice wood floor you just installed in your newly government granted free time. But, you can't call a plumber because they're all on UBI watching Bob Ross howto videos and painting beautiful landscapes, remember the name Andrew Yang.

Man, you're so right! Plumbers are all lazy pieces of shit that would all stop working immediately if they could feed their family.

It's not about lazyness. It is a matter of having all your needs and wants fulfilled and not needing to work. Where you can finally simply pursue hobbies. Why do any kind of labor if everything is met. Especially janitorial, plumbing, heavy lifting, dredging in miserable conditions, or any other number of difficult thankless jobs.

Go watch dirty jobs the tv show, it's an eye opener. There are even people who climb down in sewers and scrap our feces off the walls in big cities. Who would want to do that if they could just get on UBI and build gokarts in their spare time instead.

You know those wind turbines the power grid relies on? Dirty jobs had an episode that showed how they have to climb up inside them, crawl into really tight spaces, and clean out debris to keep the turbines functioning. It's a tough, harrowing, frightening and claustrophobic experience.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#272

Post by Nasrudith »

nogabebop23 wrote: post #256

>> Yang says Humanity Forward plans to immediately distribute Dorsey’s contribution in the form of small cash grants of $250 to nearly 20,000 people who’ve lost their jobs or taken an economic hit as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic So money based on certain non-universal conditions? Isn't this one of the root problems? People cannot accept a truly universal system - you've already got too much; that guy lives in th…

That isn't exactly new politically for better or worse and essentially "bug report closed - a feature not a bug". Fundamentally that is what more democratic systems are - more distributive of political power and interests to please. They are supposed to "buy" votes by pleasing the voters! Every human has their price but that price may not be monetary. Of course all ways are not equal in terms of wisdom or morality.

Athenian democracy was rather different but they had voted for several wars of conquest to enrich themselves and the rowers (the job was higher paid than a soldier due to scarcity and militarily you both want better performance of professionals vs slaves and for them to be allies of soldiers during naval boardings instead of slaves who rebel for freedom).

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#273

Post by asien »

burrows wrote: post #235
smalltalks wrote: post #217

Technically speaking , many European countries already have "Basic Income". ( France , Sweden , Norway...) They are reserved for individuals "Not Active" though ( Unemployed and not looking for a Job ) over a certain age. Those "BI" massively lower poverty , which usually massively reduce crime-rate , drugs related usage etc... With 700€/Month you aren't gonna far anyway, you have enaugh for food and rent , and that'…

> With 700€/Month you aren't gonna far anyway, you have enaugh for food and rent , and that's it... Contingent benefits disincentivize people from participating in the economy. People paid to do nothing... do nothing. > For America it's different, America cannot technically afford "BI" because the entirety of the US economy has been built on having 20% of the population living under the poverty line in order for good…

> Propaganda.

Nope it’s not.

In order for welfare to be « legalized » , and for taxpayer to accept that their money will go to «Non-Active» individuals it’s necessary to have a cultural fit between the two.

You cant tax like Norway or France ( 40% overall ) if people believe that you should work to earn a living, it’s not right to do so. American would never accept such sky high taxe rate if it cause against their believes and thus their culture.

US rely on entrepreneurship which create wealth which enable people to buy goods/services.

This is 100% cultural not propaganda.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#274

Post by claudeganon »

burrows wrote: post #270
kerkeslager wrote: post #257

While I think UBI is one of the better solutions to the poverty problem in the US, I think almost any solution to poverty will fall prey to inflation if we don't address income inequality. One way to do this is pay ratio caps at companies. It's pretty hard to argue against this: if you really believe that wealth trickles down, then you should have no problem trusting but verifying that.

> While I think UBI is one of the better solutions to the poverty problem in the US, I think almost any solution to poverty will fall prey to inflation if we don't address income inequality. Please define the "poverty problem" in the US. How is an increase in the money supply related to income inequality?

> How is an increase in the money supply related to income inequality?

Go read about whose asses were saved with printed the money during the 2008 financial crisis. Or the 7 trillion bailout fund for corporations that just passed.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#275

Post by gnicholas »

kerkeslager wrote: post #257

While I think UBI is one of the better solutions to the poverty problem in the US, I think almost any solution to poverty will fall prey to inflation if we don't address income inequality. One way to do this is pay ratio caps at companies. It's pretty hard to argue against this: if you really believe that wealth trickles down, then you should have no problem trusting but verifying that.

> One way to do this is pay ratio caps at companies. It's pretty hard to argue against this: if you really believe that wealth trickles down, then you should have no problem trusting but verifying that.

That's not what trickle-down economics was ever about, to my understanding. But more importantly, a plan like you suggest would surely increase the user of contractors, rendering these the proposed pay ratio impotent.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#276

Post by burrows »

gamegoblin wrote: post #99
hhs wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s possible, Y Combinator Research seems to be doing just this with a randomized controlled trial study in two states: https://basicincome.ycr.org/our-plan

I believe what OP is getting at is you need a significant portion of a community to be receiving UBI to truly transform the local economy. To use an example the Yang often uses: It may not be economically viable to set up a bakery in some small dying town. But if everyone in that town were receiving UBI, it might become viable, due to a change in the town's spending habits.

> But if everyone in that town were receiving UBI, it might become viable, due to a change in the town's spending habits.

The change being that everyone is now spending money earned by someone else.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#278

Post by luckylion »

slg wrote: post #210
luckylion wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You currently don't have the option to not work. Most people work more than they need to because they realize that the future is uncertain and having savings will be beneficial if there's trouble at some point in the future. Give the same people a trust fund that takes care of them and that they trust to last for their life time, and most will stop working as hard. They may still work, but much less and most likely o…

It isn't a binary option between work and not work. Most people on HN make much more money than they need to subsist. If the goal is to only subsist, there is an option to reduce hours worked in exchange for reduced pay. The exact form that could take varies as not everyone works at a company that would support either a shorter workday or workweek. However other options exists that don't rely on your employer such as…

> If the goal is to only subsist, there is an option to reduce hours worked in exchange for reduced pay.

No. You need to factor in the future.

The whole passive income/early retirement crowd is a great example of it. They want to create regular income (from projects/businesses or investments) to allow them a simple life for all of their future years, while they go do whatever they please. Few people do that, because it typically entails working much harder today so you don't have to work as much or at all tomorrow.

If you removed the hurdle or working harder today, many people would choose that route.

> There are also numerous financial options available to you such as annuities or insurance if you are worried about protecting yourself from unforeseen financial hardships.

Absolutely. And you need to pay for those. To do that, you need to earn more than you currently need to subsist.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#279

Post by wyre »

mydongle wrote: post #180
hobs wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like children? Children need you to support them for years as a buffer before they can get on with life. Society benefits as a whole when we foster the development of proper adults. If the development to making them a net contributor is not done yet, why would we stop?

Hey, that's angle I've never thought about before. We support children for years and all we expect them to do is go to school. While a lot of kids could decide to just not work and be taken care of by their family, the vast majority want to work anyway, if only for the fact they want to move out and build their own family. This may be the key. UBI + Making people go through further education so that they can have the…

UBI+further education sounds like a great idea. After graduating people won't be stressed about finding a job to help pay for their mounds of student loan debt and will have the knowledge to work on projects that they find meaningful.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#280

Post by oehtXRwMkIs »

viklove wrote: post #249
eanzenberg wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So overall dilution of the currency. Then, increase UBI some more to make up for it. Then, dilute the currency some more. Over a few cycles become the new Venezuela as most entrepreneurs leave for greener fields.

Easy solution -- we stop the process of QE and replace it with a UBI. Why is dilution OK in the name of big corps but the next incarnation of Hitler when it's for you and I?

Don't strawman, they never mentioned Hitler.
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