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Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

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Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#131

Post by ctdonath »

NYTimes:

"In a lawsuit filed on Tuesday, Hobby Lobby accused the auction house Christie’s of “deceitful and fraudulent conduct” in connection with an ancient tablet bearing a fragment of Gilgamesh. The suit claims “fraud and breach of express and implied warrant” in connection with the tablet, and seeks the return of what it paid for the tablet. In a statement on Tuesday, Christie’s said the lawsuit was related to an unidentified dealer’s admission of illegal activity “predating Christie’s involvement” with the tablet."

Interesting how few are interested in the defense that Hobby Lobby was a victim.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#132

Post by csomar »

Amezarak wrote: post #107
nemo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in Egypt, the Great Pyramid was once covered with gleaming white limestone, but this was removed and used to build mosques This is a very misleading distortion of history. The limestone casing on the Great Pyramid was destroyed in an earthquake in 1308 CE. The limestone rubble was pulled from the base of the pyramid and repurposed for building though much of it was also burned in kilns for lime like the marble of ma…

This comes across a little patronizing. The poster is making the point that North Africa had been part of a civilized empire for centuries, and full of wealthy cities, some famous for their learning. Some of history’s greatest minds lived in Roman North Africa. These cities were conquered. Some were sacked and destroyed. There was major loss of life, economic destruction, and loss of property, including written works…

The region never recovered post-Carthage. I live here, so if you are talking about a powerful civilization, then there is only Carthage. After that it was mostly trading cities going through boom-bust which are setup by other civilizations (Rome/Byzantium/Caliphates/Ottoman...)

> These cities were conquered. Some were sacked and destroyed. There was major loss of life, economic destruction, and loss of property, including written works. The conquerors, at the time, did not much appreciate the value of what they were destroying.

It's just life. North Africa was just a bunch of tribes/cities. It is easier for an invader to tackle them one city at a time than taking a full united civilization.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#133

Post by csomar »

nemo wrote: post #121
Amezarak wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comes across a little patronizing. The poster is making the point that North Africa had been part of a civilized empire for centuries, and full of wealthy cities, some famous for their learning. Some of history’s greatest minds lived in Roman North Africa. These cities were conquered. Some were sacked and destroyed. There was major loss of life, economic destruction, and loss of property, including written works…

Your understanding of the region is not an accurate account. Not at all. There have been various sophisticated civilizations in the region, among them various Islamic states. The rises and falls of various sophisticated civilizations came about for a variety of reasons, most of which were prior to the Islamic world existing. The Islamic Golden Age brought Alexandria back from being a declining backwater with its scho…

It might be a good idea to state your definition of North Africa. Though the Wikipedia page says that the most accepted definition is one where Egypt is part of it; I've been of the idea that it's not (but that might be because of the french influence ;) )

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#134

Post by karaterobot »

microtherion wrote: post #38
triceratops wrote: post #7

> Hobby Lobby bought the tablet in a private sale, after a Hobby Lobby representative viewed the tablet in London. The auction house shipped the tablet to its New York office and, from there, hand-carried it to Hobby Lobby's headquarters in Oklahoma City, "so that Hobby Lobby could avoid incurring a New York sales tax," according to prosecutors. Oy vey. I don't know how serious this is but it's not a great look. Is t…

> Is this kind of thing [tax evasion] common in the art world? Oh yes, it seems so common that it's more or less openly advertised: https://www.wealthmanagement.com/art-auctions-antiques-repor... And art collectors are not infrequently involved in shady schemes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urs_Schwarzenbach#VAT_fraud_an...

I wonder if this is actually tax evasion. I think the idea behind this was to avoid a taxable event from taking place, not to lie in order to avoid paying taxes they legally had to. It's analogous to me driving out of my way to avoid going over a toll bridge, vs. (for example) covering up my license plate to avoid being caught by the toll cameras.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#135

Post by donw »

cambalache wrote: post #59
laingc wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait until you read about the Roman Republic thousands of years before this time - you’re gonna love it.

Yeah but besides the sanitation system,the aqueduct, the roads, the irrigation system, medicine,oratory, law, historians, dramatists,Vitruvius..what did those lousy Romans have?

They did invent chemical warfare: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garum

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#136

Post by micmil »

ctdonath wrote: post #131

NYTimes: "In a lawsuit filed on Tuesday, Hobby Lobby accused the auction house Christie’s of “deceitful and fraudulent conduct” in connection with an ancient tablet bearing a fragment of Gilgamesh. The suit claims “fraud and breach of express and implied warrant” in connection with the tablet, and seeks the return of what it paid for the tablet. In a statement on Tuesday, Christie’s said the lawsuit was related to an…

Has to do with Hobby Lobby's history of victimizing its workers and ALSO their history of doing illegal shit.

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/28/623537440/hobby-lobbys-illega...

This is a two year old article about a different set of artifacts. They're hoarding shit that was stolen during wartime. Hobby Lobby are scumfuck pieces of shit and every last asshole involved in this needs to metaphorically burn.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#137

Post by Cyph0n »

foobar_ wrote: post #113
deathgrips wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a tragedy. Most westerners don't realize that when Europeans were living in mud huts and emptying their chamber pots into the streets, the Muslim world had plumbing, water filtration, surgery, advanced mathematics, and many more amazing scientific advances which quickly spread throughout Muslim countries due to the cultural exchange at Mecca. I wonder what the world could have been like if the Mongols had never…

That is a barbaric lie. It's akin to Christians taking credit for the Greco-Roman civilisation. Completely backwards. Persia / Babylon / Sumer was one of the first advanced civilisations. Arabs have contributed nothing to civilisation in terms of anything and are pretty much like the mongols for their role in history.

Speaking in absolutes like that without sources is a great approach... if you don’t want to be taken seriously, that is.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#138

Post by micmil »

brigandish wrote: post #130
nemo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in Egypt, the Great Pyramid was once covered with gleaming white limestone, but this was removed and used to build mosques This is a very misleading distortion of history. The limestone casing on the Great Pyramid was destroyed in an earthquake in 1308 CE. The limestone rubble was pulled from the base of the pyramid and repurposed for building though much of it was also burned in kilns for lime like the marble of ma…

If that "Golden Age" includes the destruction of Nalanda[1], then forgive me if I agree with the person you're replying to, it was an incredibly destructive empire that aggressively expanded and destroyed anything that deemed heretic. As such, it's not exceptional in either sense. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda#Decline_and_destructio... Edit - As I can't reply to stuff like this (it deserved to die) but in…

Find me an "empire" that wasn't destructive. You're disingenuous, and likely racist as all hell. Fuck off.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#140

Post by Alkhwarizmi »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #50
deathgrips wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a tragedy. Most westerners don't realize that when Europeans were living in mud huts and emptying their chamber pots into the streets, the Muslim world had plumbing, water filtration, surgery, advanced mathematics, and many more amazing scientific advances which quickly spread throughout Muslim countries due to the cultural exchange at Mecca. I wonder what the world could have been like if the Mongols had never…

One could say the same thing about a lot of conquerors including the Arab armies. For example, when the Arab armies conquered North Africa, it was one of the richest and most developed areas in the Mediterranean. After the Arab conquest, it became a backwater and never achieved the prominence it had before. Also, in Egypt, the Great Pyramid was once covered with gleaming white limestone, but this was removed and used…

Are you pulling this stuff out of thin air or do you have any legit source to back it up!?
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