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Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

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Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#41

Post by laingc »

deathgrips wrote: post #35
keiferski wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The destruction of Baghdad itself, including the House of Wisdom (large library), by the Mongols in 1258 is probably a more apt comparison. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)

What a tragedy. Most westerners don't realize that when Europeans were living in mud huts and emptying their chamber pots into the streets, the Muslim world had plumbing, water filtration, surgery, advanced mathematics, and many more amazing scientific advances which quickly spread throughout Muslim countries due to the cultural exchange at Mecca. I wonder what the world could have been like if the Mongols had never…

Wait until you read about the Roman Republic thousands of years before this time - you’re gonna love it.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#42

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

legerdemain wrote: post #8

One of the outcomes of the US-Iraq war was Iraq's national heritage of antiquities getting plundered and sold illegally.[1] The burning of the Library of Alexandria is a potent symbol in Western culture, but the world has repeatedly suffered massive losses of cultural and historical artifacts in the last few decades. The public quickly develops historical amnesia for recent events. Compare, for example, the loss of B…

Ironically, purely from an amoral preservation point of view, having the antiquities in a museum in the United States or Western Europe has a higher chance of preserving the artifact for future generations.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#43

Post by officemonkey »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #39
crazygringo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then it'll probably just disappear again. Sigh. What are you basing that on?

Oh is Iraq's government stable again? Are the people not at risk of hunger? Will the sanctity of museums be observed now and in the future, uninterrupted? The Elgin marbles are safe in the British Museum. Would they have been safe, left where they were found, for 100 years? Being PC about antiquities is intellectually interesting. But practically, it means many antiquities will be broken up, lost or hidden.

Considering they were looted from the Parthenon in Athens, which is still standing, I would say "yes."

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#44

Post by aaronbrethorst »

chadlavi wrote: post #28

what a bizarre timeline we live in (edit: to be clear what I mean is that it's extremely bizarre that a discount tchochke store in the US would own an extremely precious Mesopotamian artifact in the first place, not bizarre that justice is actually being done about it)

It's not that weird. The founder of Hobby Lobby is an evangelical Christian, among other things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Green_(entrepreneur)

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#45

Post by chadlavi »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #44
chadlavi wrote: post #28

what a bizarre timeline we live in (edit: to be clear what I mean is that it's extremely bizarre that a discount tchochke store in the US would own an extremely precious Mesopotamian artifact in the first place, not bizarre that justice is actually being done about it)

It's not that weird. The founder of Hobby Lobby is an evangelical Christian, among other things. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Green_(entrepreneur)

tbh that guy's whole deal only makes it weirder

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#46

Post by colejohnson66 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #39
crazygringo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then it'll probably just disappear again. Sigh. What are you basing that on?

Oh is Iraq's government stable again? Are the people not at risk of hunger? Will the sanctity of museums be observed now and in the future, uninterrupted? The Elgin marbles are safe in the British Museum. Would they have been safe, left where they were found, for 100 years? Being PC about antiquities is intellectually interesting. But practically, it means many antiquities will be broken up, lost or hidden.

I agree with you, but unfortunately, that doesn’t justify theft.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#47

Post by aaronbrethorst »

davidw wrote: post #40
selimthegrim wrote: post #34

This sounds like the beginning of a horror movie you'd find on Lifetime or Hallmark, but where the ancient Mesopotamian evil accepts Christ and sits down for tea and cakes with the children like in Narnia.

"Ned Flanders comes into possession of an ancient evil stone tablet and makes Homer do his bidding"

Seems more likely that Ned Flanders would come into possession of an ancient, cursed monkey's paw...

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#49

Post by JoeAltmaier »

officemonkey wrote: post #43
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh is Iraq's government stable again? Are the people not at risk of hunger? Will the sanctity of museums be observed now and in the future, uninterrupted? The Elgin marbles are safe in the British Museum. Would they have been safe, left where they were found, for 100 years? Being PC about antiquities is intellectually interesting. But practically, it means many antiquities will be broken up, lost or hidden.

Considering they were looted from the Parthenon in Athens, which is still standing, I would say "yes."

Through a world wars I and II, the various rebellions and coups, a civil war? No, very likely someone would have 'harvested' them to sell for food.

Come on! The Nazis systematically plundered art treasures across Europe. After the war much of that was lost. There is not really much doubt on this.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#50

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

deathgrips wrote: post #35
keiferski wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The destruction of Baghdad itself, including the House of Wisdom (large library), by the Mongols in 1258 is probably a more apt comparison. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)

What a tragedy. Most westerners don't realize that when Europeans were living in mud huts and emptying their chamber pots into the streets, the Muslim world had plumbing, water filtration, surgery, advanced mathematics, and many more amazing scientific advances which quickly spread throughout Muslim countries due to the cultural exchange at Mecca. I wonder what the world could have been like if the Mongols had never…

One could say the same thing about a lot of conquerors including the Arab armies. For example, when the Arab armies conquered North Africa, it was one of the richest and most developed areas in the Mediterranean. After the Arab conquest, it became a backwater and never achieved the prominence it had before. Also, in Egypt, the Great Pyramid was once covered with gleaming white limestone, but this was removed and used to build mosques.

The pattern of civilization, destruction, new civilization is a repeating motif in history. Yes the Mongols caused a lot of destruction, but they also facilitated the East-West exchange of ideas and goods on a hithero unknown scale.

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