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The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

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Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#291

Post by Erlich_Bachman »

snowwrestler wrote: post #31

When I go many days in a row without enough sleep, I find that my cognitive abilities (i.e. what I am capable of doing) does not seem to significantly decline--as judged by things I build and people I interact with. But, my endurance of focus (the amount of time for which I can perform at a high level) does suffer. The weird thing is that it doesn't feel like I can't keep going... it's just that I sort of somehow don…

> The weird thing is that it doesn't feel like I can't keep going... it's just that I sort of somehow don't keep going

Sounds a lot like an unfalsifiable hypothesis. Which means it can simply be a question of your perception of a phenomenon, not an objective truth of it.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#292

Post by toxik »

wayoutthere wrote: post #185
hawkice wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is by far the most important thing for HN to learn about this. The default level of self deception on this front is enormous.

I think the other part to remember is that the author of the article is 22. I didn't need sleep either when I was his age. I don't mean he's naive, just that a 22-year-old can abuse their body without too many negative consequences. As someone in my late 30s, I definitely feel it when I only get 4 hours of sleep.

I don't know what type of drugs you guys were eating in your 20's but if I pulled an all-nighter, I was absolutely ruined the next day and a bit the day after that. Even in my teens.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#294

Post by aerique »

snowwrestler wrote: post #31

When I go many days in a row without enough sleep, I find that my cognitive abilities (i.e. what I am capable of doing) does not seem to significantly decline--as judged by things I build and people I interact with. But, my endurance of focus (the amount of time for which I can perform at a high level) does suffer. The weird thing is that it doesn't feel like I can't keep going... it's just that I sort of somehow don…

I have experienced something similar after I've been ill. For example, day 1 and 2 I'm just doing my work and don't feel ill yet, then day 3 I get ill and have to stay home from work.

Afterwards I notice that my work from day 1 and 2 is way below average and can more or less be discarded, while I did not notice this at the time.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#295

Post by laumars »

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 wrote: post #230
hashmal wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find that my cognitive abilities (i.e. what I am capable of doing) does not seem to significantly decline It's very common. Studies on sleep deprivation report that subjects do not feel their cognitive abilities decline. However, measuring cognition using objective tests does show a significant decrease in these abilities.

Reminds me of people I’ve encountered who think they’re better at X while on $DRUG. Almost for sure, in my experience with these people, it’s definitely not true, though they’re convinced of it. People driving while high are especially frustrating, because they’ve convinced themselves that there better drivers.

It depends on the activity, individual, the drug and dosage. There isn’t a generalisation that can be made because there are so many variables.

Take something that requires more mental focus but do not rely on reaction times, like pool, I definitely play better when I’ve been drinking as I get less distracted when going down on a shot and less anxious about my performance. And pool is a small enough table where the negative effects of drinking tend not to overcompensate (unlike snooker where more than 1 pint will hamper my game).

For some activities it’s more about mental focus on that single activity where as driving is about multitasking and reactions. Qualities drugs tend to hamper rather then enhance.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#296

Post by milesvp »

hawkice wrote: post #87
hashmal wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find that my cognitive abilities (i.e. what I am capable of doing) does not seem to significantly decline It's very common. Studies on sleep deprivation report that subjects do not feel their cognitive abilities decline. However, measuring cognition using objective tests does show a significant decrease in these abilities.

This is by far the most important thing for HN to learn about this. The default level of self deception on this front is enormous.

Seriously. The experiments with oxygen deprivation are very telling on this front. There's literally a button to press before you black out to give you oxygen, and people don't press it. Simple tasks, like identifying playing cards, people fail at, yet are convinced they've correctly identified the card. Our brains are amazing at lying to us.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#297

Post by thendrill »

elbear wrote: post #289
Zenbit_UX wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ain't no fancy pants happiness author but I'd posit that happiness is 70% stupidity and 30% circumstance. You can be poor and happy or rich and happy, but the smarter you are the less likely either of those are true. Though being rich certainly helps.

Why would it be less likely to be rich and happy the smarter you are? If you're smarter, it means you can learn more efficiently. If you learn more efficiently, you get a deeper understanding of the world. If you understand how something works, you stop having the wrong expectations, so you're less likely to be unhappy.

The smarter you the more you realize the truth about our social structures... In turn that can make you unhappy...

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#298

Post by crooked-v »

hashmal wrote: post #66
snowwrestler wrote: post #31

When I go many days in a row without enough sleep, I find that my cognitive abilities (i.e. what I am capable of doing) does not seem to significantly decline--as judged by things I build and people I interact with. But, my endurance of focus (the amount of time for which I can perform at a high level) does suffer. The weird thing is that it doesn't feel like I can't keep going... it's just that I sort of somehow don…

> I find that my cognitive abilities (i.e. what I am capable of doing) does not seem to significantly decline It's very common. Studies on sleep deprivation report that subjects do not feel their cognitive abilities decline. However, measuring cognition using objective tests does show a significant decrease in these abilities.

I discovered this for myself when I realized that while on 4 hours of sleep, I could power through stuff with the aid of enough caffeine and feel at least marginally productive...

...but I started leaving typos in everything.

That really doesn't sound like much, right? Honestly, though, it genuinely freaked me out a little, existentially, the first time I noticed. I was one of those nerds who got to a state spelling bee as a kid, and I've always been a voracious reader. I've had spell-check turned off since forever because it would inevitably be the spell-check that was wrong about niche terms.

But without enough sleep, all of that competence that I usually just take for granted vanishes. I end up with 'good moerning' and 'how are yoiu' and 'paass the salt', and I don't even notice I'm doing it until I look back at what I've written and double-take.

And that's just with casual writing, probably one of the lowest-overhead mental tasks possible for many people. God only knows what kind of disaster would result from me trying to drive or operate heavy machinery in that state.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#299

Post by crooked-v »

jkhdigital wrote: post #123
oh-4-fucks-sake wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's what other recent psychological/neurological research has found too (citation needed--but do remember reading about it recently from multiple sources). It figures that everyone each has their individual baseline "propensity to stay focused"--and sleep deprivation degrades someone's focus below that. You take a normal person and sleep deprive them, and their "propensity to stay focused" is lowered, but…

> Ergo, ADHD might have a large sleep component. Yeah, I can count on one hand the number of times in my life when I woke up in the morning, even after a good night of sleep, and felt "refreshed". I didn't even know what that meant until I had a conversation with a coworker who just hops out of bed and is "on" immediately. Feels like there is a connection with my ADHD diagnosis.

Try one of those wake-up lights if you can. Bright light in the morning can really help with waking up smoothly, or at least getting you into a relaxed half-awake state that makes an alarm less jarring.

Anecdotal source: Having a (tiny but well-angled) skylight does wonders for me in the summer months.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#300

Post by bsimpson »

I spent one of the hottest summers on record couchsurfing around Europe. The heat and the casual accommodations both truncated my sleep significantly. I thought I'd cool off by going mountain biking in the Alps.

I didn't realize how tired I was until I got to the top of the lift. It was fucking terrifying!

Doing regular vacation stuff like eating and talking to people was totally fine - I hadn't even noticed I'd accumulated a sleep deficit. But the attention and the quick reflexes extreme sports require are another matter entirely.

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