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The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

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Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#221

Post by BatFastard »

hashmal wrote: post #66
snowwrestler wrote: post #31

When I go many days in a row without enough sleep, I find that my cognitive abilities (i.e. what I am capable of doing) does not seem to significantly decline--as judged by things I build and people I interact with. But, my endurance of focus (the amount of time for which I can perform at a high level) does suffer. The weird thing is that it doesn't feel like I can't keep going... it's just that I sort of somehow don…

> I find that my cognitive abilities (i.e. what I am capable of doing) does not seem to significantly decline It's very common. Studies on sleep deprivation report that subjects do not feel their cognitive abilities decline. However, measuring cognition using objective tests does show a significant decrease in these abilities.

What I wonder is how it affects your average performance, sure it effects your peak performance, but how often do you really need peak?

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#222

Post by guzey »

spacephysics wrote: post #149
DominikPeters wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author of the OP is not a fan of Why We Sleep, having found many errors and misrepresentations [1]. [1] https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/

I did not know that, thanks. Time to read the article and threads dang posted.

Even the wikipedia article you linked to in your comment mentions my critique of the book!

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#223

Post by lemming »

Jedd wrote: post #163
lemming wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definitive reference for all things sleep is “why we sleep” by Matthew Walker. It’s a fantastic read, highly recommended. It single handedly moved getting enough sleep from a similar category to “I should probably eat less salt” to “this is the single most important thing for my health” for me.

FWIW TFA's author is vehemently opposed to Matthew Walker's book. (Disclaimer - I'm not. I found much of the content interesting and compelling.)

Yes, I saw that following links from this thread, and have spent more of the morning than I should have reading it and the various threads discussing it.

I think the criticism seems valid, and it probably means I shouldn't use the book as a reply to people asking for scientific evidence (like the comment I replied to). That said, I don't think it detracts from the main argument of the book, or the main revelation for me, which is that most people don't realise how damaging lack of sleep is. I would still recommend it to a lay friend on that basis.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#224

Post by lemming »

kelnos wrote: post #209
lemming wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definitive reference for all things sleep is “why we sleep” by Matthew Walker. It’s a fantastic read, highly recommended. It single handedly moved getting enough sleep from a similar category to “I should probably eat less salt” to “this is the single most important thing for my health” for me.

I recall reading something linked on HN some months ago where someone dissected that book rather brutally, pointing out inaccuracies, flat-out lies, instances of ignoring inconvenient data, and conclusions drawn without any supporting evidence, so... not sure I'd treat that as gospel. Oh, looks like it was by the same author as the article we're discussing: https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/

Yeah, I just saw that in this thread, and replied to a sibling: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23230713

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#225

Post by guzey »

rkagerer wrote: post #33

Was his assessment basically just playing video games? I've noticed that's an activity I can do proficiently for an extended duration on very little sleep (along with things like "bulk" coding) but there are others I'm awful at unless I'm well rested (eg. complex planning, creative efforts like songwriting) and I've found my communication skills start to become impaired when I'm really sleep deprived. I'd be curious…

This gotta be my favorite comment in the entire thread. I take three tests: PVT, a video game, SAT -- and I get accused of "just playing video games" and told to perform a broader spectrum of assessments.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#226

Post by mmmBacon »

>> Subjectively, I felt that I gained somewhere between 2 and 3 hours of productive time every day.

>> I found that I was able to go from “falling asleep” to “fully alert” at all times by playing video games for 15-20 minutes. I ended up playing video games for approximately 30-90 minutes a day

Does this mean the actual amount of time gained from this was 2-3 hours or do we subtract out the amount of time spent playing video games? If we subtract out the video games there is not much benefit to being sleep deprived, sometimes only 30 additional productive minutes are gained.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#227

Post by guzey »

lemming wrote: post #223
Jedd wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW TFA's author is vehemently opposed to Matthew Walker's book. (Disclaimer - I'm not. I found much of the content interesting and compelling.)

Yes, I saw that following links from this thread, and have spent more of the morning than I should have reading it and the various threads discussing it. I think the criticism seems valid, and it probably means I shouldn't use the book as a reply to people asking for scientific evidence (like the comment I replied to). That said, I don't think it detracts from the main argument of the book, or the main revelation for…

>It single handedly moved getting enough sleep from a similar category to “I should probably eat less salt” to “this is the single most important thing for my health” for me.

>That said, I don't think it detracts from the main argument of the book, or the main revelation for me, which is that most people don't realise how damaging lack of sleep is.

I don't get this. You find that the book you believe provides the arguments for the damaging effects of sleep and based on which you dramatically changed your life is bullshit but somehow this fact doesn't detract from its main argument and you are still going to recommend it to your friends?

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#228

Post by guzey »

collyw wrote: post #113
vikiomega9 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you point me to some of these studies, ie. one that's a good starting reference.

I dont know any off hand but Mathew Walkers book "Why we sleep" talks about them. Apparently there are more road traffic accidents the day after the clocks change in spring when many people loose an hours sleep.

https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#229

Post by guzey »

mmmBacon wrote: post #226

>> Subjectively, I felt that I gained somewhere between 2 and 3 hours of productive time every day. >> I found that I was able to go from “falling asleep” to “fully alert” at all times by playing video games for 15-20 minutes. I ended up playing video games for approximately 30-90 minutes a day Does this mean the actual amount of time gained from this was 2-3 hours or do we subtract out the amount of time spent playi…

Actual amount of time.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#230

Post by 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 »

hashmal wrote: post #66
snowwrestler wrote: post #31

When I go many days in a row without enough sleep, I find that my cognitive abilities (i.e. what I am capable of doing) does not seem to significantly decline--as judged by things I build and people I interact with. But, my endurance of focus (the amount of time for which I can perform at a high level) does suffer. The weird thing is that it doesn't feel like I can't keep going... it's just that I sort of somehow don…

> I find that my cognitive abilities (i.e. what I am capable of doing) does not seem to significantly decline It's very common. Studies on sleep deprivation report that subjects do not feel their cognitive abilities decline. However, measuring cognition using objective tests does show a significant decrease in these abilities.

Reminds me of people I’ve encountered who think they’re better at X while on $DRUG. Almost for sure, in my experience with these people, it’s definitely not true, though they’re convinced of it.

People driving while high are especially frustrating, because they’ve convinced themselves that there better drivers.

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