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US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

cnbc.com

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Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#161

Post by pinkfoot »

onemoresoop wrote: post #61
bildung wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will be very surprised if Huawei would be found guilty of anything. The company plays an important role in actually defining the 5G standard as a member of 3GPP, and holds 3 times the number of 5G patents than Qualcomm. I mean, look at the number of contributions to the 5G standards by company in this document, and compare the positions of Huawei, Qualcomm and Cisco: https://www.iplytics.com/wp-content/uploads/2019…

Making contributions doesn’t cancel stealing secrets. We all know most of the chinese technology was IP stolen and improved upon. Lets take for example Solowheel. Do you know the story behind it?

Have you ever stopped to ponder why Ford, GM, and Chrysler's four-stroke motors look ever so much like the one the Germans Nicolaus Otto, Gottlieb Daimler, and Wilhelm Maybach invented?

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#162

Post by luckylion »

stareatgoats wrote: post #55
Udik wrote: post #2

This is nothing else than the US panicking over losing their technological and economic supremacy, and using brute force to damage a competitor. Disgusting and very dangerous for the whole world.

Yes, this is correct, it's the sign of the US losing its post WW2 grip on world affairs. But the normally balanced and insightful HN crowd is drowned out on topics like these. Pre-WW1 style national pride and competition for markets and raw materials is back with a vengeance it seems, and it's not only the US who got it; Russia, China, the EU and more got it too. It doesn't bode well.

> Pre-WW1 style national pride and competition for markets and raw materials is back with a vengeance it seems

I don't think those are the reasons, they are consequences. The reason, in my opinion, is just money. Your income depends on your job and the success of your company, which largely depends on the economy at large and, in case of large powers, on their world-wide power projection. People understand this instinctively, it's pure tribal behavior.

I believe most world-politics interpretation is just motivated reasoning, and you can change somebody's worldview by making them the beneficiary of a trust that's invested in whatever country they dislike. When they draw dividends from their enemy's success, they'll come to see them in a different light.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#163

Post by billfruit »

generatorguy wrote: post #151
billfruit wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doub't her detainment had anything at all to do about Canada, so in this case Canada was, it appeared merely toeing the US line, rather than having a specific stake in the matter. Really though the crux of the matter is wether Meng is held due to a real criminality as per Canadian/US law, or is being held as a political move, and signals from both US and Canadian administration has been confusing in this regard. So…

Canada does have a stake in the matter as Huawei hacked Nortel to steal their IP and then undercut all their business deals causing nortel to go bankrupt to the detriment of 94,000 employees and every single Canadian that owned just about and stock market fund. It is embarrassing that we haven’t banned Huawei products in Canada yet.

Yes but that is not related to the case at hand. So if that is used a justification to hold Meng, that is a political reason. Governments in democracies, esp the judicial system is supposed to act to uphold fairness and not national self-interest.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#164

Post by pinkfoot »

amd-bull wrote: post #119

the last time we effectively blocked china from acquiring tunneling machines, they ended up building their own, a mean feat, and now they're looking to start exporting them! disrupting the market economy has a vicious way of getting back at ya [0] http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1121448.shtml

A military UAS. Swathes of the developing world now use Chinese UAS.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#165

Post by ethbro »

mindslight wrote: post #104
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

worked for a main competitor of Huawei building UMTS/LTE base stations which at the time weren't even properly standardized (early systems design). Searched for my own name on github. Found source code I wrote for said vendor which was taken from somebody who worked for our Hangzhou office and had access to the same internal VCS[1] as me. The guy downloaded anything he had access to then moved to Huawei and from ther…

This is classic disruptive innovation at nation state scale. Imaginary property only worked when all jurisdictions agreed to follow the same rules, and could enforce these rules onto individual actors. Obviously China isn't playing by these rules and has no desire to play by these rules, regardless of any lip service paid. So we can either adjust our own philosophies to better match how the real world operates. Or we…

There's always been a lot of inside baseball with regards to international trade "rules."

Countries always act in what they perceive to be their best interests.

Ergo, there will always be tension over rules that further those interests and rules that act counter to them.

Pharma patents have historically been a major example. Disempowering smaller countries in their negotiations with pharmaceutical companies (via mandatory IP enforcement) tilts the playing field in favor of corporations headquartered in first world countries.

So, even in the most lawful of times (2000s?), it's a constantly shifting landscape.

While China may have ignored more rules than most, the existing rules certainly didn't favor them, and they believed they had the power to ignore them.

We'll see where that ends up.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#166

Post by billme »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #144
billme wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pure speculation... All of this is about national security. US & Taiwan’s TSMC are in talks to open a TSMC factory in the US. Chairman of TSMC has publicly stated if the US gives them enough money, they’ll do it. Appears US (Trump) is telling TSMC if they do not open the factory for free, they’re going to have trouble making money at all. Taiwan wants to keep TSMC because it’s an insurance policy, China & the US both…

Hm, I think you and I mean a different thing by 'national security'. I think of, like, spying, or trying to insert malicious vulnerabilities in software (attack), etc. Like maybe if Huawei were accused of being used by the Chinese government to spy on America, it would make sense to require a license to sell tech to Huawei. (I have sometimes seen it accused of such; I have no idea how credible such accusations are; b…

All national security has a cost, access to TSMC is obviously national security issue, and appears US is positioning itself to reduce the cost of access to TSMC and increase it for China.

National security is an ends, not a means; its ultimate form is shapelessness, not a strict definition.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#167

Post by Udik »

ericmay wrote: post #150
rjzzleep wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It actually was fast tracked by the trade war. Government mandated domestic development of certain things after the US made it clear to China that they're not trustworthy trading partner. Not that China is, but kind of besides the point. Similar to how the google ban fast tracked Huawei working on google free systems e.g. buying third party map services like TomTom. Bad for Google good for competition. Basically the…

> It actually was fast tracked by the trade war. Government mandated domestic development of certain things after the US made it clear to China that they're not trustworthy trading partner. Not that China is, but kind of besides the point. I'm not sure why that's besides the point? The U.S. for years worked to invest in China and build them as a great trading partner and the CCP continued to just steal trade secrets…

Let's put it this way: China is a huge country, that has been very well governed in the past 30 years. Its people are proud, smart, ingenious, and they're working a lot for a lot less than their western counterparts. Given this, and given it lasts, it was inevitable for China to overtake the US in technology, economic power and importance on the world scene. Sooner or later, even playing by all the rules.

Was the US prepared to accept that? What do you think happens when the world's only technological, economic and military superpower is about to be overtaken by a competitor? Did you think the US was going to lose its supremacy without trying everything it could to prevent it? Of course not.

And then, what kind of actions do you think it would take to prevent it? For example, the US could start a very aggressive trade war with China. They could try to justify it in various ways, for example by saying that China is a risk to the world, that its technology is tainted by some issue (maybe it could be used for spying). They could try to isolate China, advising all its partners not to trade with it. And so on.

And this is exactly what we're seeing. It would have happened anyway, independently from China's behaviour. Because the only variable is how close they are to threatening the US's power. And they're close.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#168

Post by Craighead »

predictmktegirl wrote: post #36

I think we should all keep something in mind before we go celebrate the end of globalization. If we go on a rampage pulling manufacturing and capital out of China while simultaneously blaming them for the pandemic, in a few years we’ll end up seeing a nation with a shattered economy, a pissed off populace, and the largest and most well supplied army on Earth. Rhetoric tends to devolve into a limited decision matrix w…

Oh no! A shattered authoritarian country that routinely steals IP from the rest of the world and consistently ruins the lives of its own folk will be angry?

Please.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#169

Post by luckylion »

LegitShady wrote: post #72
0xfaded wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say it's an unnecessary dilution of national brand power. I know people who refuse to buy things directly from China, yet are perfectly happy buying the same items through a western distributer. That price delta is directly measurable brand equity that ends up as taxable money spent in western economies with no real value add. Pulling this crap only incentives China to develop their own silicon. Since the west ca…

>Pulling this crap only incentives China to develop their own silicon. Operating under the assumption this isnt already a priority to them, which I would say is a big assumption. You're looking at this as if it was in absence of the rest of the trade footings of the two countries. The west is building stuff in this industry - semi conductors. The east is operating heavy industrial espionage to try and steal all the s…

> The west is building stuff in this industry - semi conductors. The east is operating heavy industrial espionage to try and steal all the secrets of it so they can take it from the west.

Let's not forget that a good part of the NSA's business is industrial espionage, allegedly also heavily in Western Allies.

Re: US blocks shipments of semiconductors to Huawei

#170

Post by jrochkind1 »

billme wrote: post #166
jrochkind1 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm, I think you and I mean a different thing by 'national security'. I think of, like, spying, or trying to insert malicious vulnerabilities in software (attack), etc. Like maybe if Huawei were accused of being used by the Chinese government to spy on America, it would make sense to require a license to sell tech to Huawei. (I have sometimes seen it accused of such; I have no idea how credible such accusations are; b…

All national security has a cost, access to TSMC is obviously national security issue, and appears US is positioning itself to reduce the cost of access to TSMC and increase it for China. National security is an ends, not a means; its ultimate form is shapelessness, not a strict definition.

I'll ask again, is there any example of international trade dispute/conflict that would not be about 'national security' with this understanding? Can you give one? Or does this intentionally and consciously reconceptualize all attempts to get advantage in international trade, or a business advantage for domestic corporations over foreign ones, as 'national security'?
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