Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

401–410 of 424 posts

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#401

Post by fred_is_fred »

aripickar wrote: post #8

I'm pretty bearish on the pandemic actually leading to massive change in the number of people permanently working from home. My boss put out a survey a week or two ago among my org (30 or so people), and 70% said that they want to work from the office, full time, 20% said some time or most of the time, and 10% said fully remote. And this is a group of people that would be largely well suited to working from home duri…

In reality - being older with kids is better for working from home than younger with no kids - assuming you have a proper workspace. I really enjoy being able to step out and have lunch with my family, to be home while my wife runs errands, etc. I also live with 5 other people and never really feel alone like a younger single person might. Also as I get older I end up on more conference calls (in management) and its a pain to take them in an open office like everyone has.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#402

Post by iso1631 »

nradov wrote: post #283
iso1631 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who is taking care of the kids when the 'door is closed'? Same person taking care of them when you're at work. Except for 3 hours a day less

Most day care centers are still closed.

You miss the point -- if you send your kids off to school/daycare/whatever while you commute an hour to an office, spend 8 hours there, plus socialising, then an hour back, you can send your kids off to school/daycare/whatever for 8 hours.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#403

Post by iso1631 »

bradlys wrote: post #173
take_a_breath wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

==When my office door is closed, everyone knows I'm "at work". If you don't have a separate physical space where you only work, I can see how this might be a challenge.== Now add a partner who also works from home. Will the extra space (and hardware) needed to comfortably fit all these new home workers be another cost shifted from companies to employees? If my company wants me to work from home much longer; they need…

So... $1000 for a fancy electric standing desk. $1000 for a fancy chair. $1000 for better monitors + arms. $200 for a keyboard. $100 for a mouse. We're looking at less than $3500 for a mid-level setup. The cost of a bit of equipment is a joke compared to the cost of another bedroom. Adding another room to a house is tens of thousands of dollars. Buying a home with another room is also the same cost or more depending…

I have my same £120 ikea desk + chair I've had since 2011, I have a 5 year old desktop (£1500), three monitors (£400), a 9 year old laptop (£900), my own printer (£50), and multiple network options (£150 of switches). Work provided everything but the printer and desk/chair. Pretty tiny.

If I go to the office (mainly for socialisation, sometimes for large whiteboarding afternoons), I have a fight to see if I can perch on the end of a desk nowhere near anyone I work with on a tiny laptop, massively unproductive.

My office at home is about 80 square foot, and it has a pull down bed in it too for guests. London office prices puts that at £4,000 per month[0]. Manchester is £2700 a month, Liverpool £1300 a month.

The mortgage on my _entire house_ is 20% of the cost of a desk in London, the cost of my house is about £1 per square foot, and that includes the capital repayment.

[0] https://www.mgmt.ucl.ac.uk/capital-of-entrepreneurs

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#404

Post by iso1631 »

bialpio wrote: post #314
toomuchtodo wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should you live near your job if it's expensive? Your choice. Should your employer pay you more if they can pay someone less who lives somewhere cheaper? Their choice. If you want to live in a small place in the city, there is a cost. If it's not pleasant to work from there because there isn't enough space, that is part of the cost. You are competing with folks who can now work from home, and have the space to do so…

Should I subsidize my employer by reducing the need for them to rent an office space? They're basically now getting free space and shifting the cost to me. Same applies to the cost of electricity, heating (I'm at home 8hrs more than I would otherwise), time spent getting food / cooking, etc. There may be more hidden costs and some people may not be OK with their employer not participating in those. Everything's a cho…

> Should I subsidize my employer by reducing the need for them to rent an office space?

Bob working from home, costs $salary, say $10k a month

Carl, working from office, costs $salary + office space

Office space costs say $5k a month, so total $15k a month

If all things are equal, who would be employed? Maybe Bob charges $14k a month, still undercutting Carl's $15k/month total.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#405

Post by iso1631 »

take_a_breath wrote: post #380
gowld wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"tax-advantaged" just means "discounted". It's still a large expense. Why would an employer reimburse commute costs but not pay a workstation stipend to non-commuters (possibly marked down 50% due to taxes)?

The government reimburses the commute costs through the tax code.

Which government? In the UK there's all sorts of effort in the tax system to ensure that commutes to work are not tax deductible.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#406

Post by shibeouya »

I can't think of anyone in my office who wants to permanently work from home.

We talk about it every week, and it's become clear that everyone is looking forward to the day where offices reopen.

I really don't see this trend of people relocating. And for those considering it, once they are made aware that salaries will scale with location it's probably going to be a strong enough deterrent.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#407

Post by benhurmarcel »

autokad wrote: post #257
subsubzero wrote: post #18

One thing this doesn't mention is the pay cuts that happen if you do decide to relocate to cheaper areas. Both me and my Wife's company have pay bands based on geographical region(most employees know nothing about this and most companies employ these salary COL changes for relocation) and certain regions you can take a big pay cut. Say your salary in the bay area is 100k for example, move to the South, say Florida an…

I personally have always been against paying people different rates based on geography. if a person offers value, they should be paid for that value regardless. some people say, but shouldnt their cost of living be taken into account? yes previously, but not when we choose to live where we want. I feel like that whole argument goes away once we are choosing where we live. that being said, I would expect companies to…

> if a person offers value, they should be paid for that value regardless.

That sounds nice on paper, but in practice I guess you wouldn't want to get paid what your equivalent in eastern Europe or Asia currently earns.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#408

Post by benhurmarcel »

PenguinCoder wrote: post #359
subsubzero wrote: post #18

One thing this doesn't mention is the pay cuts that happen if you do decide to relocate to cheaper areas. Both me and my Wife's company have pay bands based on geographical region(most employees know nothing about this and most companies employ these salary COL changes for relocation) and certain regions you can take a big pay cut. Say your salary in the bay area is 100k for example, move to the South, say Florida an…

Yeah, agreed. I don't appreciate this type of race to the bottom. I live in a Low cost of living area, but my work output is not dependent on geographical location. If I do less or worse work than someone on my team in a HCOL area, I would be up for a PIP or worse. I would be absolutely fine with getting paid less, if my company had an expectation of lesser output. But, as it stand, I am expected to deliver as well o…

And yet you still gets paid a lot more than your equivalent in a lower-cost country. Yet employees in Europe or Asia aren't expected to produce less either.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#409

Post by maddax »

aripickar wrote: post #8

I'm pretty bearish on the pandemic actually leading to massive change in the number of people permanently working from home. My boss put out a survey a week or two ago among my org (30 or so people), and 70% said that they want to work from the office, full time, 20% said some time or most of the time, and 10% said fully remote. And this is a group of people that would be largely well suited to working from home duri…

From the other responses, it looks like the biggest factor is commute. I am very fortunate to have my workplace 5 mins from home by walk, and I don't see anyone in my situation preferring work-from-home.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#410

Post by pb7 »

bluGill wrote: post #330
vdnkh wrote: post #313

I feel like most of HN is missing something here, of no fault of their own because they're not in my demographic (20-something yuppie). Young people want to live in cities. They're fun, exciting, and enable a robust social life. Moving to rural Ohio or Michigan, or even a "lesser" metro in the midwest is not the same as living in SF or NYC in terms of social opportunity. I work remote and I live in Brooklyn and I thi…

What do you get in SF that you can't get in Des Moines? I lived in Des Moines until last year and I find most answers to this question are wrong: you can in fact get it in Des Moines. Sometimes Des Moines is even better, though I'll admit in most cases the vastly smaller size limits quantity of choices.

Diverse younger people from all around the world that are trying to reach their full potential.
Post reply on HN