Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#81

Post by dougmwne » Thu, May 14, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

aripickar wrote: post #8

I'm pretty bearish on the pandemic actually leading to massive change in the number of people permanently working from home. My boss put out a survey a week or two ago among my org (30 or so people), and 70% said that they want to work from the office, full time, 20% said some time or most of the time, and 10% said fully remote. And this is a group of people that would be largely well suited to working from home duri…

This survey result not surprising to me at all. Even if it was 10x more efficient to work from home in every circumstance, if the office didn't exist, we would need to invent it. There is a human social nature, and remote work goes against it.

The office makes most of us feel important and useful. Managing others who only appear on a screen doesn't have the same ego jolt as having your employees there in person. And many people want to be managed and feel lost and disconnected without an actual in-person person to guide them. And that peer camaraderie doesn't feel as nice when your peers are not psychically with you.

We have to all realize that it takes a very specific type of personality and set of life goals to thrive in a fully remote workplace.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#82

Post by shuckles » Thu, May 14, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

geddy wrote: post #36

zaidf wrote: post #14

People won't continue making their current SF salary by working out of Farmville, Ohio. I think this point is missed by many I fully expect Twitter, for example, to come out with salary adjustment policies for people who want to work from home from an entirely different city and state

I'm always reading about job openings throughout my country (or world, for that matter) that offer 100% remote positions, and initially the huge difference in salary was pretty jarring. Then I hopped on Trulia for some less populated (not rural, but certainly not close-to-the-city-suburbs), and realized the mortgage for a house twice my size would cost the property taxes I pay now. Literally talking about a $25,000/y…

There's a concept known as operating leverage which applies here: fixed costs, even if high, mean that increases in revenue multiply net income.

And of course by moving outside a greater metro area, you're also saving money by choosing not to consume any amenities of private schools, airports, large hospitals, high infrastructure recreation, etc.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#83

Post by whatok » Thu, May 14, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

capableweb wrote: post #21

_jal wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> young, no kids, etc There is your major reason for that survey result. Companies with median-older workforces will see more enthusiasm for remote work.

I read it the other way. Only people who are young with no distractions at home, favor working at home. People who usually have family members at home, get too distracted compared to a office environment, to prefer working at home.

It really depends on how old your kids are. If your kids are of school age then the distraction at home is minimal. I'm sure someone is going to come in reply with "omg but they're real rascals in the morning!!!!" I would weigh that vs morning commute time and then throw in saving the post-work commute for free.

Even if they aren't of school age, paying for daycare vs potentially much lower cost of living is an easy trade for a lot of people. That's not even getting into the difference between public school choices or much reduced private school tuition available in the rest of the country.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#84

Post by viklove » Thu, May 14, 2020, 5:26 PM UTC

geddy wrote: post #36

zaidf wrote: post #14

People won't continue making their current SF salary by working out of Farmville, Ohio. I think this point is missed by many I fully expect Twitter, for example, to come out with salary adjustment policies for people who want to work from home from an entirely different city and state

I'm always reading about job openings throughout my country (or world, for that matter) that offer 100% remote positions, and initially the huge difference in salary was pretty jarring. Then I hopped on Trulia for some less populated (not rural, but certainly not close-to-the-city-suburbs), and realized the mortgage for a house twice my size would cost the property taxes I pay now. Literally talking about a $25,000/y…

fuck hn

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#85

Post by geddy » Thu, May 14, 2020, 5:27 PM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #59

geddy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a damn shame, really, the slavish devotion to one's car and spending hours a day sitting in traffic apparently is apparently preferred over actually getting time back in your everyday life. It's like people have adapted to having no life outside of work, and now they're just so bored they'd rather lose that time than just find a new hobby or learn something. I don't think I've ever thought about anything more de…

My commute is also my morning and evening cardio routine as a bike 5 miles each way. I've been really missing the every day bike rides this year.

See, now this sounds awesome. Everyone's getting offended for sport but what I'm referring to is the fact that we have a huge portion of the US who sits in a car all day and night, clogging up highways and polluting the air.

You bike to and from work? That's fantastic, if I could do that I'd be in the office a few days a week too, as I also road bike. But so many people don't do that.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#86

Post by Consultant32452 » Thu, May 14, 2020, 5:27 PM UTC

aripickar wrote: post #8

I'm pretty bearish on the pandemic actually leading to massive change in the number of people permanently working from home. My boss put out a survey a week or two ago among my org (30 or so people), and 70% said that they want to work from the office, full time, 20% said some time or most of the time, and 10% said fully remote. And this is a group of people that would be largely well suited to working from home duri…

One thing to keep in mind is that this is NOT what working remotely is really like. During normal times if I am missing socialization at work I can make up for it by going out more during the week. During normal times if I want I can spend a few hours working from the local cafe. But the cafes are closed. During normal times, kids are at school for most of the day so they don't disrupt you. But schools are closed.

I'm not suggesting people will prefer what normal remote work life is like, but I don't think they're experiencing it right now.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#87

Post by wayoutthere » Thu, May 14, 2020, 5:27 PM UTC

geddy wrote: post #17

aripickar wrote: post #8

I'm pretty bearish on the pandemic actually leading to massive change in the number of people permanently working from home. My boss put out a survey a week or two ago among my org (30 or so people), and 70% said that they want to work from the office, full time, 20% said some time or most of the time, and 10% said fully remote. And this is a group of people that would be largely well suited to working from home duri…

It's a damn shame, really, the slavish devotion to one's car and spending hours a day sitting in traffic apparently is apparently preferred over actually getting time back in your everyday life. It's like people have adapted to having no life outside of work, and now they're just so bored they'd rather lose that time than just find a new hobby or learn something. I don't think I've ever thought about anything more de…

For me it has reinforced my opposition to remote work. I feel like without a dedicated space for work, it is hard for me to mentally unplug from work. I'm already burned out from 2 months of this. I feel like I never know what day it is.

Pre-pandemic, I set my life up so that I was walking distance to everything I needed. My apartment is super small, but that's fine when things are open. I'm actually considering buying a car and moving out to the suburbs because I see my inner-city neighborhood rapidly descending into squalor. I think most city-dwellers with financial means are at least considering the same.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#88

Post by FalconSensei » Thu, May 14, 2020, 5:27 PM UTC

cactus2093 wrote: post #7

I'm certainly daydreaming about this, as someone living in SF right now. But IMO things are still too uncertain to pull the trigger on making a huge move. And I wonder if the likeliest scenario, is that everyone strongly considers doing this, but then we all slowly get used to the "new normal" and by the time it's clear one way or the other what the future is starting to look like, we're past the peak of the virus (m…

> In fact, maybe this scenario actually increases cost of living because now you need to both be close enough to downtown to commute a few days a week, and have enough space for a dedicated home office so you can work from home productively the other few days a week.

I agree completely. Like, I decided to live in a small apartment downtown Vancouver because the office is really close. To be comfortable working from home, I need a bigger place with an extra room. Either I go back to the office, or I move away from downtown and don't go back to the office.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#89

Post by take_a_breath » Thu, May 14, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #35

capableweb wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read it the other way. Only people who are young with no distractions at home, favor working at home. People who usually have family members at home, get too distracted compared to a office environment, to prefer working at home.

Mid 30s, partner, two kids, will only work from home. Will not consider a commute or an office. Have worked remotely for almost a decade. Doing the math, I've saved almost 3360 hours by not having to commute (~2 hr/workday), not to mention wear and tear on a vehicle and the associated commute costs. When my office door is closed, everyone knows I'm "at work". If you don't have a separate physical space where you only…

==When my office door is closed, everyone knows I'm "at work". If you don't have a separate physical space where you only work, I can see how this might be a challenge.==

Now add a partner who also works from home. Will the extra space (and hardware) needed to comfortably fit all these new home workers be another cost shifted from companies to employees?

If my company wants me to work from home much longer; they need to provide a better desk chair, a new screen, and better keyboard/mouse attachments.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#90

Post by cortesoft » Thu, May 14, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

capableweb wrote: post #21

_jal wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> young, no kids, etc There is your major reason for that survey result. Companies with median-older workforces will see more enthusiasm for remote work.

I read it the other way. Only people who are young with no distractions at home, favor working at home. People who usually have family members at home, get too distracted compared to a office environment, to prefer working at home.

When we had daycare, I liked working from home. With no daycare, I can't get anything done at home.