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OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

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Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#181

Post by guevara »

mydongle wrote: post #160
[deleted] wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

I feel the same about those Twitch streamers. I really dislike opportunistic people trying to cash in on something they wouldn't be interested in if not for money. It cheapens the thing that is supposed to be a passion for others. Too many Twitch streamers and Youtubers who don't provide much value other than being a pretty face. The idea of Twitch was supposed to be rewarding gamers for their hard work and passion d…

> Glorified camwhore site Pretty much it, the jokes of Twitch being Chaturbate Lite are all too true. Worse is that they push the "Just Chatting" section too since they know it draws in a lot of viewers.

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#182

Post by MuffinFlavored »

dontbenebby wrote: post #177
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is absolutely zero ethically or morally wrong with someone selling sex, or buying sex from someone else. That's an insanely modern/left view with zero consideration to basically all historically socially accepted conservative views of the past. It's trendy to support sex workers online in 2020 but in the 2000s I'm pretty sure 95% of white suburbia wouldn't have wanted their daughters hanging out with sex work…

>That's an insanely modern/left view... It's trendy to support sex workers online in 2020 but in the 2000s I'm pretty sure 95% of white suburbia wouldn't have wanted their daughters hanging out with sex workers. The Cato Institute has been pretty consistently pro legalization. Are they "leftist"? This really shouldn't be a left/right issue. As a matter of public health, criminalization and measures like SESTA/FOSTA j…

I agree that on the surface it isn't / shouldn't be "left versus right" but the viewpoint differences seem to align almost 1:1 with "selling yourself sexually is good to with me" (left) and something more conservative (right)

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#183

Post by MuffinFlavored »

anigbrowl wrote: post #168
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is absolutely zero ethically or morally wrong with someone selling sex, or buying sex from someone else. That's an insanely modern/left view with zero consideration to basically all historically socially accepted conservative views of the past. It's trendy to support sex workers online in 2020 but in the 2000s I'm pretty sure 95% of white suburbia wouldn't have wanted their daughters hanging out with sex work…

basically all historically socially accepted conservative views If you need more than 3 qualifiers it's probably BS. You could just post why you think sex work is bad, but your numerous posts on this topic all seem to rely on invoking social sanctions or paranoia, ie making people feel bad about it without saying why you think they should. Seems kinda like your personal hangup.

I've got no personal hangups with the topic whatsoever. I think it is very fun to poke at the reality of what people online claim. Lots of trendy Miamians will claim it's empowering if somebody is a sex worker, then talk sh*t about them behind their back saying what a hoe they are.

I'm trying to gauge the pulse of what HackerNews thinks.

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#184

Post by maxcan »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #88
mydongle wrote: post #62

As a guy, I'm cool with this kind of stuff. But what message does this send to girls who are not considered attractive enough or just don't want to do this kind of work? The message is that all the study, work, and effort to work in a meaningful career is a freaking joke, when all it takes is to be born a certain way and make huge amounts of money selling your body. On the other hand, we have a generation of young ma…

But what message does this send to girls I think the larger problem is the degree to which men refuse to engage women in a substantive intellectual fashion. I appear to be the highest ranked woman on HN. I've been here over a decade. It continues to be the case that most men don't really want to talk much with me unless they are hitting on me. This has proven to be a huge barrier to effective networking and a huge ba…

> I think the larger problem is the degree to which men refuse to engage women in a substantive intellectual fashion.

First statement is a generalization across 50% of the population.

> I appear to be the highest ranked woman on HN. I've been here over a decade. It continues to be the case that most men don't really want to talk much with me unless they are hitting on me.

Second comment is decrying the fact that the population broadly smeared in the first comment does not want to engage with you.

I can only speak for myself, but the only times that I’ve ever been aware of the gender of a commenter are incredibly rare and only when I recognize the username as that of a personal friend of mine. In general, I’m pretty confident that the gender of a commenter on HN has no effect on how I reply to them for the simple reason that I’m almost always ignorant of it.

In your case, its possible that the mindset expressed in your first sentence contributes to the phenomenon or perception of the phenomenon in the second.

edit before anyone turns this into career suicide for me, I’m not saying that there is a link. I’m just observing the possibility

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#185

Post by elliekelly »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #165
elliekelly wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be. And of my father/son/brother/grandpa too.

Do you think you are better/more open-minded than somebody who would not be ok + would look down upon a member of their family performing sex work? The topic of sex work morality acceptance has a very "me versus them" vibe to it, much like left versus right in the US. Is there any middle ground of "you can do whatever you want, I am not infringing on your rights, but I personally disagree" that doesn't land the speak…

Can I answer your first question with a question: do you think you are better than somebody who performs sex work?

As for middle ground I understand that some people might “personally disagree” and I get that. There are a lot of things in the world that I personally disagree with, too. Like marriage, for example. I wouldn’t be caught dead getting married. But I understand that some people want to and it makes some people happy. And even though I choose not to participate I still support my friends and family who do.

The difference, in my mind, is “X is not right for me” vs “X is not right”. One is about personal opinion and the other is about forcing that opinion onto others who might not share it.

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#186

Post by MuffinFlavored »

dontbenebby wrote: post #170
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My question to most people on this forum are: would you really be ok if your daughter was best friends with a sex worker? Everybody says "of course!" in theory... but in reality I think it falls apart. Lots of blurred moral lines.

> My question to most people on this forum are: would you really be ok if your daughter was best friends with a sex worker? Everybody says "of course!" in theory... but in reality I think it falls apart. Lots of blurred moral lines. I have more respect for a sex worker than someone who builds unconstitutional mass surveillance tools. At least most sex work is legal . I think the only "blurred moral line" wrt sex work…

> but firmly disagreeing with folks they personally know.

That's what I'm trying to poke at here in these comments. It's almost as if you do not support sex work/aren't ok with the theory of having it in your household, you're the enemy. You aren't cool, you're behind the curve, and you need to work on yourself to get your views more in line with the rest of the more liberal folk. That's how it reads to me anyway.

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#187

Post by DoreenMichele »

hanniabu wrote: post #180
DoreenMichele wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, she secretly slept with and lived with one of her investors who also had some important position within the company. So there's that. https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2019/03/227176/elizabeth-ho...

You're contributing to a stereotype that if a woman is having a relationship with someone at work that it must be to get ahead.

Holmes was absolutely not succeeding on merit. She was so very not succeeding on merit that there is a criminal case charging her with fraud.

I don't think it helps to turn a blind eye to the issue that women can sleep their way into positions, careerwise, and men typically cannot. We have expressions like the casting couch for a reason.

I've spent a lot of years trying to analyze this problem space and find a viable path forward based on actual merit. I'm not going to refrain from criticizing the likes of Holmes. She has done enormous harm to the status of women by her actions, which include sleeping with an investor to get money for a project that had no real merit because it was straight up fraud. So she probably wouldn't have been funded at all if she were male.

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#188

Post by mydongle »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #179
mydongle wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, there's really not much I can do to get women into C Suites of corporations and things like that. Poor and unemployed due to a pandemic and that kind of stuff. For guys like me, it's great that we get to have this huge abundance of porn from all kinds of girls who would've never done it before. I just feel very sad for the girls and boys who never consented or signed up for this fucked up clown world we've got…

Sorry, there's really not much I can do I don't think this is true. I think ordinary guys have access to knowledge that most women lack and just talking with women and taking their issues seriously makes a real and meaningful difference. So thank you for conversing with me (as opposed to pissing all over me or just being blatantly dismissive). I am not calling for a ban. I'm sorry that you feel accused. I'm not tryin…

The logical outcome of my objections is not a ban. I don't know why that has to be the case. Like you say, if we did more for women, they wouldn't have to do sex work. Then there would only be a small amount of women who do sex work purely because of passion, not because they were broken and grinded down by a profoundly sick society.

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#189

Post by Jommi »

redis_mlc wrote: post #166
sio8ohPi wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they will work without tips. Nobody is making you tip. Why not just pay for your meal and leave?

For non-US HN readers: In the US, the IRS assumes you make a certain amount in tips if you work in a job that customarily allows tipping. So when a customer doesn't tip, the waiter still has to pay taxes on the money you didn't give them. But wait, it gets worse (this being the US): Some states allow paying waiters less than minimum wage if tipping is customary. As low as $2/hour. So a waiter could actually end up ow…

This is completely crazy. Its just one of these absurd Americanisms that we should take a look at during COVID and not continue.

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#190

Post by legostormtroopr »

NoahTheDuke wrote: post #128
legostormtroopr wrote: post #119

More power to people selling if it works for them, I'm just concerned they aren't thinking about their futures. As crass as people will say this is, selling your body is selling access to a depreciating asset. While they might be making good money now, eventually these girls will grow up. Slowly they'll see subscribers dip, but only enough for them to think they can adjust their product. But there will always be some…

This sounds like most careers, though. Except for the sensational language, how is this different than agism in the software industry, or folks who never become managers? In my (limited) experience, most people don’t climb the ranks or get major pay increases, especially during a pandemic like this.

Agism in the software industry is only a big issue in the "startup scene", in industry its not as big an issue and experience software architects are always in demand, even if they don't become "managers".

And even if you aren't climbing ranks, as long as you keep up your skills you can stay in a job in some places for a long time.

What I am saying is that people who go into "camming" don't have that option. Eventually their audience will go away.

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