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Tesla workers’ unemployment may be suspended if they don't return, emails show

theguardian.com

31–40 of 70 posts

Re: Tesla workers’ unemployment may be suspended if they don't return, emails show

#31
post #3

I'm a foreigner so I don't fully understand this, but here's my take: 1) Tesla is restarting the factory against local rules saying they can't, because their competition is in different localities with their local rules saying they can, and Tesla is at a disadvantage. 2) It's basically illegal for the workers to go to work, but Tesla is still insisting they do this? 3) the local council has said they won't do enforce…

You've missed that Tesla was already negotiating to open up one week from now. This is a 7-day advancement of a plan that was already likely to happen with complete legal support.

We could still debate the moral wisdom of resuming production with significant additional safety procedures. Tesla is communicating that they've managed to do this successfully and safely at a similar factory in Shanghai.

There's really three aspects to this:

(1) The wisdom and timing of resuming normal activities with sufficient precautions (and if not now, then when?)

(2) The specific legal problems of doing this after the state has allowed re-opening, but before the county has done so, and one week before it would otherwise be allowed

(3) Musk's seemingly-irrational and spastic way of communicating his intents and opinions on Twitter

The US debate on the quarantine measures is so polarized it's ridiculous. I personally disagree that all nonessential economic activity involving face-to-face contact should be shut down for >12 months until a vaccine might be ready. So it follows that a return to workplaces that can mostly be made safe must happen at some point. Should this happen when it's safe, or at some predetermined point in time? Who decides? How should companies behave if their competitors choose a specific strategy?

I was the first person in my area to call out for social distancing, shutdowns and quarantines, even before any official response was in the cards, so please don't write me off as a right-wing parrot for pointing this out. The US response was atrocious, cost hundreds of billions and tens of thousands of lives already. But now it's the reality we have.

Musk's apparent Twitter insanity is its own story. I think it's mostly relevant for the court of public opinion. He obviously has other motivations for his tweets than seeking the truth, but his plays are quite rational. He has a history of framing reality in ways that aren't compatible with the most objective interpretation. Calling it lying would generally be an overstatement, but some of it has been very dishonest.

In this case, the most likely explanation is a strong wish to not lose the competitive position of Tesla, along with playing an existing political divide to build support with the right-voting population that would previously dismiss him and Tesla as liberal tree-huggers.

This is actually a decent marketing strategy in the social media, Twitter-fuelled post-truth world. But as many other things Musk has done over the years, both in public and out of it, it's a balancing act on the edge of the abyss.

Re: Tesla workers’ unemployment may be suspended if they don't return, emails show

#32

Elon is playing with fire. This is punk mentality - let's get as close to self destruction as possible. It's OK to make decisions for yourself but health of others?

The thing is, the Alameda County Public Health Department changed their policy now that they received Tesla's plan (that was posted to the company's blog when they announced the lawsuit), and is now allowing Tesla to augment their operation activities beyond the bare minimum, in preparation for a full reopening next week. I guess both parties will claim that they went ahead according to their original plans but someh…

This depends on how much coronavirus ends up spreading among Tesla employees in the next weeks.

Re: Tesla workers’ unemployment may be suspended if they don't return, emails show

#34
post #19
post #9

Elon Musk is the guy who bets his house at the roulette table. It’s been working out for him so far but one day he’s going to step into some shit his money can’t get him out of and it’s going to be entirely his own fault.

On Joe Rogan he said he was selling all his houses and will rent.

I only watched part of that interview, but it was cringeworthy how eager Joe Rogan was to try to impress him. He only seemed to agree with him that the response to COVID-19 is an overreaction without any pushback.

Re: Tesla workers’ unemployment may be suspended if they don't return, emails show

#35
post #31
post #3

I'm a foreigner so I don't fully understand this, but here's my take: 1) Tesla is restarting the factory against local rules saying they can't, because their competition is in different localities with their local rules saying they can, and Tesla is at a disadvantage. 2) It's basically illegal for the workers to go to work, but Tesla is still insisting they do this? 3) the local council has said they won't do enforce…

You've missed that Tesla was already negotiating to open up one week from now. This is a 7-day advancement of a plan that was already likely to happen with complete legal support. We could still debate the moral wisdom of resuming production with significant additional safety procedures. Tesla is communicating that they've managed to do this successfully and safely at a similar factory in Shanghai. There's really thr…

Well said.

Re: Tesla workers’ unemployment may be suspended if they don't return, emails show

#36
post #13

It's not like Tesla has a choice. From the e-mail: >Choosing not to report to work may eliminate or reduce your eligibility for unemployment depending on your state’s unemployment agency Tesla is not the one making the rules of unemployment benefits. They merely informing people of the rules. What is Tesla supposed to do: lie to the government about employment status of their employees? Pay them even if they don't wo…

Not risk their employees' lives just to keep the Musk profit machine going? Let their workers stay safe while collecting unemployment benefit?

False dichotomy. Nobody is completely safe from the virus. There will be illnesses both in the factory, and outside it.

It’s better that the workers have jobs, have an employer that stays in business, and have health care benefits for their families. If you want people to be safer, that is safer.

But again nobody is completely safe. There are going to be cases whether people go to work or not. But the factory is arguably a safer environment than most homes for virus transmission. I’ve been there and it’s a pretty damn sterile place where viruses would not thrive imho.

I realize it can stay viable for weeks on certain surfaces but I wouldn’t be surprised if the average surface in a home is more virus friendly than that factory. So, arguably safer.

Re: Tesla workers’ unemployment may be suspended if they don't return, emails show

#37

Workers are saying "please don't offer our jobs back because then we won't get unemployment benefits".

Workers are saying "please don't make us back to work during a once-in-a-century pandemic because it's unsafe and we don't wanna die"

Re: Tesla workers’ unemployment may be suspended if they don't return, emails show

#39
post #20
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really not a similar situation. Refusing to social distance is illegal as it puts other people's lives in danger but working for a dirty restaurant is not and is not analogous this is in any way.

Smoking and obesity put other people's lives in danger as well, whether it be due to second hand smoke or being a burden on the healthcare system and diverting resources. There have been countless discussions already about at risk groups and potential spread to them, QALY's, etc. What I want to get at is "social distancing" is arbitrary (6 feet?) and should not be forced. (I am unsure of your statement "Refusing to s…

> What I want to get at is "social distancing" is arbitrary (6 feet?)

There do exist concrete studies on what distance makes sense; see for example https://medium.com/@jurgenthoelen/belgian-dutch-study-why-in...

Re: Tesla workers’ unemployment may be suspended if they don't return, emails show

#40

Workers are saying "please don't offer our jobs back because then we won't get unemployment benefits".

Workers are saying "please don't make us back to work during a once-in-a-century pandemic because it's unsafe and we don't wanna die"

Who and when should decide if it's safe or not?
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