Tesla workers’ unemployment may be suspended if they don't return, emails show • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla workers’ unemployment may be suspended if they don't return, emails show

#11

Post by jariel » Wed, May 13, 2020, 7:25 AM UTC

JackPoach wrote: post #5

Elon is playing with fire. This is punk mentality - let's get as close to self destruction as possible. It's OK to make decisions for yourself but health of others?

The fire he is playing with is Public Opinion.

The first covid death - no matter why/who or how - will make the press and if he was saying 'mean things' ... it will be bad.

This is a pandemic, people's lives are at risk, the only thing coming out of Musks' mouth should be how much he cares about his staff, how much he is doing to make sure they are safe, that they get 100% paid time off if they or their partners get covid, that it will be 'the safest factory in the world', testing for anyone who wants it - etc. etc. etc..

It's actually an opportunity for him to look like a 'Covid Leader' but he's going the Trump/Twitter/Constitutional-crowd style populism on this one. I think it's just a mistake not borne by any communications strategy, just an angry, frustrating, flinching twitter thumb. That's not a strategy it's just 'reacting'.

Re: Tesla workers’ unemployment may be suspended if they don't return, emails show

#12

Post by gamblor956 » Wed, May 13, 2020, 7:25 AM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #2

Workers are saying "please don't offer our jobs back because then we won't get unemployment benefits".

Unemployment benefits in California are not generous. The maximum benefit is $450/week. That is less than the state's minimum wage. Assuming that you received UI for an entire year, that is only $23,400.

Re: Tesla workers’ unemployment may be suspended if they don't return, emails show

#13

Post by kjksf » Wed, May 13, 2020, 7:28 AM UTC

It's not like Tesla has a choice. From the e-mail:

>Choosing not to report to work may eliminate or reduce your eligibility for unemployment depending on your state’s unemployment agency

Tesla is not the one making the rules of unemployment benefits. They merely informing people of the rules.

What is Tesla supposed to do: lie to the government about employment status of their employees? Pay them even if they don't work?

Re: Tesla workers’ unemployment may be suspended if they don't return, emails show

#14

Post by clouddrover » Wed, May 13, 2020, 7:29 AM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #8

Andaith wrote: post #3

I'm a foreigner so I don't fully understand this, but here's my take: 1) Tesla is restarting the factory against local rules saying they can't, because their competition is in different localities with their local rules saying they can, and Tesla is at a disadvantage. 2) It's basically illegal for the workers to go to work, but Tesla is still insisting they do this? 3) the local council has said they won't do enforce…

You're not missing anything. The local county has already said they won't prosecute the workers for violating the health order since Elon Musk is making them choose between their health or their livelihoods. It's also unlikely the local county or state will prosecute Elon Musk since it's difficult to pinpoint the actual criminal violation he could be charged with. However, it's very likely that Musk will be sued in c…

> it's difficult to pinpoint the actual criminal violation he could be charged with.

Doesn't seem to be. These businesses in LA county have been charged:

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-03/coronavi...

https://www.dailynews.com/2020/05/12/60-nonessential-l-a-bus...

Alameda county could do the same.

Re: Tesla workers’ unemployment may be suspended if they don't return, emails show

#15

Post by battery_cowboy » Wed, May 13, 2020, 7:34 AM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #12

londons_explore wrote: post #2

Workers are saying "please don't offer our jobs back because then we won't get unemployment benefits".

Unemployment benefits in California are not generous. The maximum benefit is $450/week. That is less than the state's minimum wage. Assuming that you received UI for an entire year, that is only $23,400.

Plus 600 a week through July from the federal government...

Re: Tesla workers’ unemployment may be suspended if they don't return, emails show

#16

Post by Dacod » Wed, May 13, 2020, 7:43 AM UTC

kjksf wrote: post #7

Andaith wrote: post #3

I'm a foreigner so I don't fully understand this, but here's my take: 1) Tesla is restarting the factory against local rules saying they can't, because their competition is in different localities with their local rules saying they can, and Tesla is at a disadvantage. 2) It's basically illegal for the workers to go to work, but Tesla is still insisting they do this? 3) the local council has said they won't do enforce…

There's no scenario in which the workers get charged with anything as they are not breaking any laws. If a health department finds that a restaurant is too dirty to operate, they don't jail the workers or the workers but fine or shutdown the restaurant. This is a similar kind of an order - the best county could do is to fine Tesla or shut them down.

It's really not a similar situation. Refusing to social distance is illegal as it puts other people's lives in danger but working for a dirty restaurant is not and is not analogous this is in any way.

Re: Tesla workers’ unemployment may be suspended if they don't return, emails show

#17

Post by m463 » Wed, May 13, 2020, 7:43 AM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #8

Andaith wrote: post #3

I'm a foreigner so I don't fully understand this, but here's my take: 1) Tesla is restarting the factory against local rules saying they can't, because their competition is in different localities with their local rules saying they can, and Tesla is at a disadvantage. 2) It's basically illegal for the workers to go to work, but Tesla is still insisting they do this? 3) the local council has said they won't do enforce…

You're not missing anything. The local county has already said they won't prosecute the workers for violating the health order since Elon Musk is making them choose between their health or their livelihoods. It's also unlikely the local county or state will prosecute Elon Musk since it's difficult to pinpoint the actual criminal violation he could be charged with. However, it's very likely that Musk will be sued in c…

I wonder what kind of lawsuit payoff employees would get if they went to work and caught coronavirus?

Re: Tesla workers’ unemployment may be suspended if they don't return, emails show

#18

Post by pimple20 » Wed, May 13, 2020, 7:44 AM UTC

kjksf wrote: post #13

It's not like Tesla has a choice. From the e-mail: >Choosing not to report to work may eliminate or reduce your eligibility for unemployment depending on your state’s unemployment agency Tesla is not the one making the rules of unemployment benefits. They merely informing people of the rules. What is Tesla supposed to do: lie to the government about employment status of their employees? Pay them even if they don't wo…

Not risk their employees' lives just to keep the Musk profit machine going? Let their workers stay safe while collecting unemployment benefit?

Re: Tesla workers’ unemployment may be suspended if they don't return, emails show

#19

Post by m463 » Wed, May 13, 2020, 7:44 AM UTC

freepor wrote: post #9

Elon Musk is the guy who bets his house at the roulette table. It’s been working out for him so far but one day he’s going to step into some shit his money can’t get him out of and it’s going to be entirely his own fault.

On Joe Rogan he said he was selling all his houses and will rent.

Re: Tesla workers’ unemployment may be suspended if they don't return, emails show

#20

Post by natrik » Wed, May 13, 2020, 7:53 AM UTC

Dacod wrote: post #16

kjksf wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no scenario in which the workers get charged with anything as they are not breaking any laws. If a health department finds that a restaurant is too dirty to operate, they don't jail the workers or the workers but fine or shutdown the restaurant. This is a similar kind of an order - the best county could do is to fine Tesla or shut them down.

It's really not a similar situation. Refusing to social distance is illegal as it puts other people's lives in danger but working for a dirty restaurant is not and is not analogous this is in any way.

Smoking and obesity put other people's lives in danger as well, whether it be due to second hand smoke or being a burden on the healthcare system and diverting resources.

There have been countless discussions already about at risk groups and potential spread to them, QALY's, etc. What I want to get at is "social distancing" is arbitrary (6 feet?) and should not be forced. (I am unsure of your statement "Refusing to social distance is illegal...")