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Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

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Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#731

Post by [deleted] »

alex_young wrote: post #707
shibeouya wrote: post #705

I work in FAANG and I am really not convinced this is the start of a trend. First Twitter was already moving towards permanent WFH before the pandemic, it only accelerated their plans. I highly doubt (m)any other companies were also seriously considering that move before the pandemic. Second, working in a remote only team is very different from working in an office, or even from occasionally working from home. I have…

The value of the valley has always been the hallway chat. You can't easily replicate that with a zoom culture.

[deleted]

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#732

Post by RhodesianHunter »

product50 wrote: post #717
RhodesianHunter wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't say that though, so the whole "you're wrong" is unwarranted. They said local companies will have to compete with FANG salaries. To your point these would likely be cost of living adjusted, but would almost certainly be higher than the current average in most Midwestern cities.

Lol - let us see. You must me dreaming if you are expecting no significant cost of living adjustments on salaries.

You are again completely misreading what I said, which clearly states that there will be cost of living adjustments, but that the salaries are still likely to be higher than non-tech hub averages.

Not every online conversation has to be a fight with winners and losers.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#733

Post by saila »

acituan wrote: post #664
_nckn wrote: post #620

I think this is the hugest news yet. It suddenly opens the pool of candidates to all across the country. I expect other tech giants will follow suit. Those who previously can't afford or don't want to live in big cities like NYC/Seattle/SF because they are older, have families, or various other reasons now are included in the candidate pool. This can go two ways: either the local software business will have to compet…

I think you are overestimating the size of the eligible labor supply increase. Just for Google, for 2017-2019 the number of H1B workers sponsored was 22k. For the same period the increase in number of full time employees was 40k (couldn’t find the figure for US only but fair to assume majority is US-based). So more than half of the new employers are supplied internationally. Does the geo-unlocked US supply pose a sub…

> FAANG salary is a pretty damn strong incentive to overcome that geo-friction to begin with.

This is really only true for certain segments of the population. In my early to mid 20s, I moved cross country numerous times. Now I hope I never have to move again. And if I did, it wouldn't be to the Bay Area or Seattle.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#734

Post by diebeforei485 »

acituan wrote: post #664
_nckn wrote: post #620

I think this is the hugest news yet. It suddenly opens the pool of candidates to all across the country. I expect other tech giants will follow suit. Those who previously can't afford or don't want to live in big cities like NYC/Seattle/SF because they are older, have families, or various other reasons now are included in the candidate pool. This can go two ways: either the local software business will have to compet…

I think you are overestimating the size of the eligible labor supply increase. Just for Google, for 2017-2019 the number of H1B workers sponsored was 22k. For the same period the increase in number of full time employees was 40k (couldn’t find the figure for US only but fair to assume majority is US-based). So more than half of the new employers are supplied internationally. Does the geo-unlocked US supply pose a sub…

That 22K number includes renewals FYI.

So I'm not sure your statement that "more than half of new employers[sic] are supplied internationally" is true, because the H-1B numbers include renewals.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#735

Post by malwrar »

echelon wrote: post #711
alex_young wrote: post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value of the valley has always been the hallway chat. You can't easily replicate that with a zoom culture.

> The value of the valley has always been the hallway chat. Is it, really? I always hear and read this, but I see very few anecdotes. In thinking through my own interactions, I'm not sure anything that happened in the hallway, break room, or at lunch table actually contributed much more to the bottom line than conversations I've had over VC and Slack.

I find the same is true for me too. It's much easier to talk about the idea over Slack rather than during some random encounter that is probably the product of either or both parties heading to a meeting somewhere. With Slack, you even get the bonus of having time to think out the exact words you want to use to convey your thought, rather than rush through a simple and undeveloped initial response to some idea.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#736

Post by nostrademons »

ElysianEagle wrote: post #723
sizzle wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's stopping someone from moving to SF for higher comp on hiring, then getting a P.O. box or friend's mailing address in SF and moving back to work from lower cost area after some time? Is your employer really going to decrease your salary after the fact? Can you file taxes in your lower cost of living state after you lock in your high SF comp package and never notify your employer but still pay your taxes in the…

I’m guessing you’re being downvoted by those who think your comment is encouraging unethical behavior. While I certainly don’t think it’s ethical to do so, I did wonder the same thing - would companies start putting measures in place to verify you’re working from the same general area as your initially provided address? Eg, sifting through VPN log files to geo locate IP addresses etc.

They don't care as long as you show up to critical work meetings and are available when you need them for high-profile projects. I had a coworker (while at Google) who moved to Uganda without telling his manager, because he felt like it. His manager called a meeting for the next day, he hopped on a plane that night, showed up for the meeting, flew back to Uganda afterwards until he got bored there, and his manager was never the wiser, except for it being a great story for friends to tell.

What's stopping people is largely that

a.) if you aren't in the office, you miss out on critical opportunities, and if you aren't in the office too much, your boss may decide you're not worth keeping. (Officially, Google has a "if you don't show up for 3 days in a row without telling anyone you're considered to have voluntarily resigned". Unofficially this gets bent by high-performers all the time, but legally they can do it.) This is also why ambitious people at the satellite offices - NYC, Pittsburg, Seattle - move to Mountain View, because the high-priority projects require facetime and rarely go to remote employees.

b.) Hopping on a plane to make a meeting gets old really quickly, and also pretty expensive if you aren't pre-IPO. I know people who would commute from LA -> MTV, Uganda -> MTV, Seattle -> MTV, or do frequent business trips from Zurich or Sydney -> MTV. They hated it. You think the commute on 101 sucks, try adding the TSA to it.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#737

Post by CinchWrench »

hodgesrm wrote: post #716
_nckn wrote: post #620

I think this is the hugest news yet. It suddenly opens the pool of candidates to all across the country. I expect other tech giants will follow suit. Those who previously can't afford or don't want to live in big cities like NYC/Seattle/SF because they are older, have families, or various other reasons now are included in the candidate pool. This can go two ways: either the local software business will have to compet…

The pool of qualified software engineers outside of high-cost urban areas is pretty shallow. I run a 100% remote company in the midst of staffing up. We're looking for database internals people. There are not a lot of qualified candidates in, say, Oklahoma. If COVID-19 really helped people to work from the Ouachitas at reasonable salaries, it would be completely awesome. But we're a long way from that. I love remote…

I have fantasies about a homestead in the shadow of Cavanal Hill. If I could raise chickens and goats, and maybe a family, all while working remote, I'd truly have the best our age has to offer.

There are a lot of us out here in the middle who want that.

I get your skepticism, but I'm going to hope against hope that telepresence technology will continue to improve and make that possible.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#739

Post by saila »

shibeouya wrote: post #705

I work in FAANG and I am really not convinced this is the start of a trend. First Twitter was already moving towards permanent WFH before the pandemic, it only accelerated their plans. I highly doubt (m)any other companies were also seriously considering that move before the pandemic. Second, working in a remote only team is very different from working in an office, or even from occasionally working from home. I have…

I'm not super convinced. Most people have never been given the chance to adapt to full-time remote work. And there are many ways to have "hallway conversations."

A lot of people are probably more creative in a textual medium or even talking on the phone where they can't be overheard (I hate the feeling I might be distracting someone).

I wouldn't be surprised if the office squelches a lot of creativity. Of course, it all depends on the office environment and individuals.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#740

Post by thebean11 »

product50 wrote: post #718
thebean11 wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they were running a survey gauging whether it's possible to pay people less to work from home, but do we know the result of that survey? Maybe they find out that they cannot hire the same talent for less money in Indiana.

No - they were running a survey to figure out employee's interests in wfh permanently across US - but at the same time being very clear that the salary will be adjusted based on where they are.

Right but their ability to actually do that is subject to market forces. To me it's not a given they could do it.

I'm not claiming they can't, but their intention isn't proof either way.

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