Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#611

Post by alkibiades » Tue, May 12, 2020, 11:25 PM UTC

newfeatureok wrote: post #434

esoterica wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to pay SF rates if you want to hire SF level talent, even if you are hiring outside of SF. The average engineer is cheaper outside of SF because the average engineer is worse, not because you are getting the same quality of employee for the less money. Most of the good engineers move to SF to get access to better career opportunities. I'm not saying all engineers outside SF are mediocre, but if you want the…

I'd be curious to see if you have any evidence at all to suggest that the average engineer outside of SF is more competent than the average engineer in SF. The simpler explanation is simply that Bay Area companies have more money to spend. There is a lot of evidence to suggest this, including the fact that Bay Area headquartered companies pay more in their remote offices compared to other companies.

it’s neither. it’s just supply and demand. in the bay you can have offers from facebook google twitter square stripe etc... and they have to all compete for you.

a lot of cities you have like 2 choices

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

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Post by mc3 » Tue, May 12, 2020, 11:27 PM UTC

bproven wrote: post #609

ravenstine wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an ardent supporter of remote work, and I wouldn't go back to non-remote work without a hefty pay raise, but I think I probably would have considered office jobs during my last search if the offices I'd worked in previously had actually been pleasant. Open office plans, low cubicle walls, cubicle sharing, frequent noise and disrespect of focus, flimsy banged up office chairs and equipment, no budget for standing…

>Notice I mentioned nothing about free snacks, foosball tables, beer on tap, etc. I'd trade all of that for some semblance of serenity in the office. Amen

Free snacks & beer are an anti-perk if you want to maintain a healthy BMI, and a healthy body. Alcohol is a drug with side effects (even if you don't have a hangover), but most people don't think of it that way.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

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Post by netcan » Tue, May 12, 2020, 11:32 PM UTC

mxcrossb wrote: post #592

netcan wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "For me too many companies use the "family" aspect of things too much. " I'm not sure if I'm in total agreement or in total opposition. Family is an analogy... At the scale of many of our workplaces "tribe" might be more fitting. I'm also note convinced people quite believe it... It's more that they're learning the language of their new social structure, whether that's "team," or "family" or whatnot. In any case, i…

I enjoyed the Office UK version, where Tim kind of muses on this pint at the end. Offices are a unique social structure, where we spend a huge amount of time interacting with others that we never choose to be with. It seems to me there is definitely some overall benefit there, and I would hesitate to say it can be replaced by spending more times on one’s hobbies.

It is pondersome.

I think I disagree though. I don't think it's replaceable, unless we're replacing work. With remote work we'll be replacing office culture with online office culture, not hobbies. I suspect they'll inherit some of the problems.

Where we spend huge amounts of time interacting with others that we never choose is what most of our major social structures are. Family, tribe, village, parish.

Work happens to be our most important social structure besides family. It the one that grants you your privileges and titles, so to speak. You can't just replace it with a hobby. Hobby's take much less of your time and have much lower stakes. To be more engaged with what's going in a minor part of your life than a major one.... it's not healthy, IMO.

I'm not crying over office culture getting lost. We can't get rid of it, that's the problem.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

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Post by koheripbal » Tue, May 12, 2020, 11:33 PM UTC

throwaway713 wrote: post #182

dddbbb wrote: post #137

I work at a large tech company on a young team (average age is late twenties). In my experience many don't view working from home regularly as a benefit. I understand that must change drastically when you're middle aged, have a family to live around and a spacious house in the suburbs. But most younger people want to live in the middle of the city (i.e. small, often shared apartments but a short commute) and have no…

If I could keep my current compensation and move to the low cost of living area where my family is located, I would reach financial independence 10-15 years ahead of my current trajectory with Bay Area rents/costs. I'll settle for the minor inconveniences of WFH any day in order to get a decade of my life to spend with family or to work on my own projects.

Obviously your salary would diminish similarly.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

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Post by 5etho » Tue, May 12, 2020, 11:33 PM UTC

Nozbe, polish to-do app are home office only, check their culture and blogs, they are very interesting

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

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Post by chockablock » Tue, May 12, 2020, 11:33 PM UTC

skwb wrote: post #528

ardy42 wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think people get stuck in the mental construct of "office = socializing" therefore "no office = antisocial". But thats not the case. If you could eliminate the 1 hour of wasted time daily on small talk and office distractions, as well as the 1 hour daily on commuting, that leaves you two extra hours a day of your life to focus on whatever you chose. There's practical reasons for that. Socialization centered at sc…

Forgive me if I get the citation wrong, but I believe I remember listening to Ezra Klein talking how for much of the 40s/50s/60s, communities were organized by churches and community institutions. I would easily add military service to this as well. If you were a doctor, you would still know your community fairly well; whether they be a farmer or another blue collar worker. As we've replaced the prominence of communi…

This observation has been around for a while and seems important to me. Robert Putnam’s book 2000 Bowling Alone is a famous example.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

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Post by ccktlmazeltov » Tue, May 12, 2020, 11:36 PM UTC

dddbbb wrote: post #137

I work at a large tech company on a young team (average age is late twenties). In my experience many don't view working from home regularly as a benefit. I understand that must change drastically when you're middle aged, have a family to live around and a spacious house in the suburbs. But most younger people want to live in the middle of the city (i.e. small, often shared apartments but a short commute) and have no…

I'm one of these people and I want to be able to do both. Work used to be 10min subway from my place, yet I want to be able to stay home when I don't want to be disturbed at work.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

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Post by Polylactic_acid » Tue, May 12, 2020, 11:37 PM UTC

allenu wrote: post #190

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but it would also be good if more (tech) companies offered a decent working environment. That's coming from personal experience btw, where most jobs / assignments I've had, it was usually open plan, flexible seat arrangements. I have a new job now where I have a fixed desk with a set of drawers. It's a breath of fresh air and honestly it sounds so stupid and trivial. But employers don't have their employees' b…

My even more cynical take is that companies are finding employees are way more productive working from home. I think part of it could be that with COVID-19, a lot of us are looking for an outlet for our energies, and so are working harder than normal.

Where I work we have been moving at 150% pace over the last month. I suspect its related to working from home not actually slowing anyone down and everyone not wanting to look like they are slacking while not in the office. Personally I have been starting work 40 minutes sooner than I normally do since it just takes me 40 less minutes to get to my desk.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

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Post by mjrbrennan » Tue, May 12, 2020, 11:40 PM UTC

joncrane wrote: post #189

ravenstine wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an ardent supporter of remote work, and I wouldn't go back to non-remote work without a hefty pay raise, but I think I probably would have considered office jobs during my last search if the offices I'd worked in previously had actually been pleasant. Open office plans, low cubicle walls, cubicle sharing, frequent noise and disrespect of focus, flimsy banged up office chairs and equipment, no budget for standing…

> disrespect of focus This right here is my beef in a nutshell. My attention should be under my control. For example, I can't believe that leaving audible cell phone notifications on is becoming normalized.

Nothing makes me rage more than people who leave audible cell phone notifications and ring tones on in places that are supposed to be quiet (offices, library). It's one of the most selfish and disrespectful things I can think of. Especially if you are getting 20 messages in a row...the phone is right there you don't need the sound!

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

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Post by _nckn » Tue, May 12, 2020, 11:45 PM UTC

I think this is the hugest news yet. It suddenly opens the pool of candidates to all across the country.

I expect other tech giants will follow suit.

Those who previously can't afford or don't want to live in big cities like NYC/Seattle/SF because they are older, have families, or various other reasons now are included in the candidate pool.

This can go two ways: either the local software business will have to compete with FAANG salaries, or there will be jumps from senior developers, experienced developers, and many smarter/more capable developers from smaller software business to FAANG due to salary/perks attraction. Whatever the case is, suddenly fresh graduates, mid level developers, senior developers, are now competing on the same pool. It is getting even more real to compete in the high FAANG salary job openings now.

This serves as a reminder for us, whether fresh graduates, mid level, or even seniors, to always to keep your edge. DS&A grinding, system design, etc, do whatever you can to not lose your edge.

As a matter of fact, I think almost all knowledge workers will find themselves in this situation. If you are a knowledge/office worker, huge competition looms over the horizon. Never lose your edge.