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Getting Back to Work

tesla.com

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Re: Getting Back to Work

#181

Post by koheripbal »

throw0101a wrote: post #171
stefan_ wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same car plant that produces triple the number of OSHA violations as any of its competitors (combined). If that plant has a record, it is one ignoring safety.

A source: > A review by Forbes found 24 investigations by California Occupational Safety and Health Administration inspectors from 2014 to 2018, resulting in fines for 54 violations. These include new penalties that haven't yet hit the national online OSHA database, and they nearly double Tesla's fines over the last five years, to $236,730. * https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2019/03/01/tesla-sa...

I don't think this is very damning nor unexpected.

A plant with the degree of _change_ that Tesla has on its product line would likely have a very very dynamic production floor - resulting in more violations.

It also seems that the OSHA rules were not designed for Tesla's unique processes, so many of those violations, if you actually read them, are not relevant to Tesla and have nothing to do with safety.

This problem will go away as their plant process matures and as they are given the opportunity to comment on the next revision of the OSHA automotive plant rules.

Also, there have been no deaths or serious injuries, so it's hard to argue that safety was actually compromised here.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#182

Post by centimeter »

hyko wrote: post #36
centimeter wrote: post #24

Good. The economic devastation produced by the absurd government overreaction has destroyed orders of magnitude more net utility (measured in dollars, or imputed uniform-weight utils, or QALY, or whatever) than any realistic projection for the destruction caused by this virus. It's should now be abundantly clear to everyone what was clear to people who looked at the available data with a level head months ago: these…

Lives are the economy. The lockdown protects the economy.

Are you intentionally being simplistic or do you really think that’s a reasonable statement? Are you literally trying to claim that any given life is a fungible economic unit?

According to the NHS, over half of deaths attributed to covid in the UK were going to die within a year anyway, from other causes. Over half of deaths are from nursing homes in many places. We’re sacrificing the economic livelihoods of our children to buy a few months for a small fraction of the sickest, oldest people.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#183

Post by koheripbal »

frereubu wrote: post #175
cheez wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unions helped kill the car companies

This does not necessarily follow. Car companies in Germany are heavily unionised and they’re not exactly struggling (at least no more than the entire industry).

That is because Western Europe has restrictive tariffs on car imports.

If you want to put high tariffs on imports in the IS, then the IS industry would re-emerge also - though the price of cars would double.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#184

Post by koheripbal »

travisporter wrote: post #147
rasengan wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that coronavirus lives for days [1] on various surfaces. Is Elon Musk going to be on the factory floor everyday too? Additionally, social distancing doesn’t work [2] and is a suggestion being made by non medical professionals to non medical students. [1] https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/study-s... [2] https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200414/cdc-covid-19-can-sp...

Your second link is an interesting read. Even though the virus was found on the floor and >6 ft away in a Chinese hospital, fortunately no staff were infected. I am not a scientist but I think they just tested for viral fragments versus active infectable viral particles. It’s reassuring but caution is still warranted.

Moreover comparing a HOSPITAL with a factory is ludicrous as the viral loads are orders of magnitude different.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#185

Post by centimeter »

maybenot2231 wrote: post #60
icelancer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> There aren't even good examples of other countries that didn't lock down since basically everyone did. If you mean via government mandate, Sweden is a good ongoing example of this.

Sweden has 2x the projected per capita death rate of the US from the virus. I think saving 135k lives are a substantial consideration for action.

“Lives” are not fungible. Covid almost exclusively kills people who were very close to death anyway - look at the age and comorbidity data. It’s very clear. If anything, the numbers are absurdly inflated because people are dying with covid rather than from covid.

It’s abundantly clear that the US’s approach will cause more net long term suffering than Sweden’s approach. It looks like the increase in overdose and suicide deaths among younger people is already on track to destroy way more life-years than the most generous attributions to covid.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#186

Post by koheripbal »

foob4r wrote: post #164

Cancelling my Tesla pre-order - this is an abuse of workers (more blatant than before).

Aside from being a meaningless anecdote, your claim is unproven. How are we supposed to know that you really had an order?

Also, this comment is pure advocacy. We come here for analysis and depth.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#187

Post by koheripbal »

jeffbee wrote: post #34
dvt wrote: post #14

The full complaint is here: https://www.scribd.com/document/460681532/Tesla-v-Alameda-Co...

This is a pretty broad argument, that if there exists, somewhere, any jurisdiction that would permit Tesla to operate their factory, but Alameda County does not permit it, then the Equal Protection clause has been violated.

The initial claim is broad. ...but the application can be pretty narrow as neighboring jurisdictions are allowing people back to work.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#188

Post by throwbigdata »

cmendel wrote: post #166
bboygravity wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really is the best comment I read on here. I'd like to add that in the Joe Rogan interview, Elon's main point is not "let's open Tesla factories, I don't care that many people will die" like some seem to imply here on Hacker News. His main point was that the data is we have on covid epidemiology doesn't say much and we "need to cleanup the data", which seams totally reasonable to me. Decisions are being taken by…

As of this writing, 281,057 people have died from COVID 19. 2 months ago that number was < 8,000. Forgive me if I don't advocate for massively increasing the transmission rate during an active, uncontained, global pandemic.

Please consider more critical thinking.

What we know is that certain outlets report that 281,147 deaths in the world were attributed in part due to symptoms potentially related to Covid19.

This is a sad terrible time, but the likelihood that those numbers mean what you think or say they mean is low in my opinion.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#189

Post by centimeter »

goatlover wrote: post #88
centimeter wrote: post #24

Good. The economic devastation produced by the absurd government overreaction has destroyed orders of magnitude more net utility (measured in dollars, or imputed uniform-weight utils, or QALY, or whatever) than any realistic projection for the destruction caused by this virus. It's should now be abundantly clear to everyone what was clear to people who looked at the available data with a level head months ago: these…

The current 280k death toll would be higher and and heading towards 1918 Influence deaths with many hospitals being overwhelmed. That's what the lock downs are preventing, and that's why things aren't as bad as the models predicted, because we took action to slow the spread of the virus. But maybe you think 50 million deaths are worth keeping the economy rolling along (and that millions dying and health care failing…

The evidence from Sweden and from serological data everywhere doesn’t suggest that to be the case. It’s looking more and more like the lockdowns are actually accomplishing approximately nothing. But I can tell you didn’t consider/understand my point about why it’s stupid to just optimize for “number of deaths”, which is the relevant part.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#190

Post by koheripbal »

54351623 wrote: post #15

Bold move to extort public officials with threats to move a factory you're attempting to fully automate and a few hundred white collar positions to a state where your main bargaining chip is jobs when you possess less than 5% market share, a vertical monopoly and a luxury product in a crashing market. Excited to see how this one turns out.

These are high paying jobs and a rich tax paying business. I expect many cities would jump at the opportunity to have Tesla move there.
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