Getting Back to Work • Hacker News Board

Re: Getting Back to Work

#171

Post by throw0101a » Sun, May 10, 2020, 2:33 PM UTC

stefan_ wrote: post #151

smileysteve wrote: post #133

Having toured multiple car plants, and knowing Tesla is more automated than many, I am of the belief that much of the line work can successfully happen at social distances.

This is the same car plant that produces triple the number of OSHA violations as any of its competitors (combined). If that plant has a record, it is one ignoring safety.

A source:

> A review by Forbes found 24 investigations by California Occupational Safety and Health Administration inspectors from 2014 to 2018, resulting in fines for 54 violations. These include new penalties that haven't yet hit the national online OSHA database, and they nearly double Tesla's fines over the last five years, to $236,730.

* https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2019/03/01/tesla-sa...

Re: Getting Back to Work

#172

Post by michaelt » Sun, May 10, 2020, 2:36 PM UTC

Dumblydorr wrote: post #135

tenpies wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He's paradoxically so brilliant yet so misinformed. He's not very brilliant though. He may be good at his niche (although I'm not sure what that is judging by the quality of Tesla vehicles), but if you are a subject matter expert in a field that he pretends to know, it becomes very obvious that his knowledge is extremely surface-level and the equivalent of "I read Wikipedia on the plane". Actually I think his brill…

I don't understand your dig on Tesla EVs. Do you not agree they are the best EV on the market? I doubt Elon has had much to do with their quality, he's one person and his companies pull great talent, it's all about his ability to underpay great workers who want to build personal brands around his visionary company missions. I'm not saying he's a great CEO, but he does pull great talent for cheap.

Best range? Absolutely. Least likely to try to upsell you to an ICE car? Sure.

Best build quality or after-sales service? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Getting Back to Work

#173

Post by carlivar » Sun, May 10, 2020, 2:38 PM UTC

travisporter wrote: post #167

badRNG wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to wonder if these actions by Musk are going to hurt the brand image of Tesla. Sure people buy the car because it has cool gimmick features and is electric, but when you buy a car for $30k+ there's a reason you spent that kind of money: the car is a form of self expression (whether one would like to admit it or not.) When one buys a Tesla, it indicates that they are with the times, both technologically and soc…

I saved up for a used Tesla this year and have decided to hold off. I asked on another HN thread whether musk believes in climate change and didn’t hear anything. But to me, the covid tweets going against science makes me think he doesn’t really care for a low carbon footprint. So I guess I don’t know now if it is really a net carbon benefit to owning a Tesla versus another sedan over the next five years.

Research Musk promises about solar on top of his factories' roofs versus reality (spoiler: there is barely any).

This is the most obvious thing he can do and he can't even meet that promise.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#174

Post by badRNG » Sun, May 10, 2020, 2:38 PM UTC

travisporter wrote: post #167

badRNG wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to wonder if these actions by Musk are going to hurt the brand image of Tesla. Sure people buy the car because it has cool gimmick features and is electric, but when you buy a car for $30k+ there's a reason you spent that kind of money: the car is a form of self expression (whether one would like to admit it or not.) When one buys a Tesla, it indicates that they are with the times, both technologically and soc…

I saved up for a used Tesla this year and have decided to hold off. I asked on another HN thread whether musk believes in climate change and didn’t hear anything. But to me, the covid tweets going against science makes me think he doesn’t really care for a low carbon footprint. So I guess I don’t know now if it is really a net carbon benefit to owning a Tesla versus another sedan over the next five years.

I think I've always found myself a little skeptical that "voting with the pocketbook" can resolve climate change. It often seems to be a choice only available to those wealthy enough to spend time considering the carbon effect of the products they consume, and a way for wealthier people to flaunt their luxury green products without appearing entirely self important.

For the majority of people who can't afford a $30k Tesla, they will simply buy what they can afford and what will meet their needs.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#175

Post by frereubu » Sun, May 10, 2020, 2:41 PM UTC

cheez wrote: post #154

Taniwha wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem of course is that Tesla is ardently anti-union - the workers have no one to speak on their behalf

unions helped kill the car companies

This does not necessarily follow. Car companies in Germany are heavily unionised and they’re not exactly struggling (at least no more than the entire industry).

Re: Getting Back to Work

#176

Post by carlivar » Sun, May 10, 2020, 2:42 PM UTC

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #10

KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #3

Charlie Munger on Elon Musk: “I don’t want my personal life to be [around] a bunch of guys who are living in a state of delusion, who happen occasionally to win big,” Munger told Daily Journal’s shareholders. “I want the prudent person.” https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/19/charlie-munger-ideal-hire-wo...

A guy who consistently founds or joins successful companies is not someone I would call “who happen occasionally to win big”. He founded Zip2 that was acquired by AltaVista, he joined PayPal that was acquired by eBay, he joined Tesla, he founded SpaceX. His record is stellar. Of course it is understandable that Berkshire Hathaway wouldn’t hire anyone like Musk. They are as far from tech and VC as any investor could e…

The PayPal board fired him as CEO because the engineering department was mutinying against him. You forgot that part.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#177

Post by treis » Sun, May 10, 2020, 3:08 PM UTC

ydb wrote: post #155

dang wrote: post #44

Three threads on this already: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23126517 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23127552 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23129216 Not sure this one is going any better. Celebrity frenzy multiplied by pandemic rage is producing as wild a burn as we've seen on HN. If you're about to comment here, could you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html first and ma…

Thank you for being a diamond in the rough, Dan. Your tireless work keeping Hacker News a safe haven for free thinkers and polite politic is essential during times like these.

>diamond in the rough

I don't think that means what you think:

>a person who is generally of good character but lacks manners, education, or style.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#178

Post by concordDance » Sun, May 10, 2020, 3:08 PM UTC

tsimionescu wrote: post #142

dcanelhas wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden has a rather different welfare system, typical population density, income distribution, typical household demographic, urban planning and culture regarding social interactions, compared to many places that would use it as an example for what to do in this crisis. I think following the available evidence, interpreted by experts is the way to go. Ultimately the argument for Sweden's policy seems to be less based…

Sweden's strategy is also unique in the world and failing badly at protecting some of their most vulnerable citizens. It's also based on unproven ideas, like immunity from Covid19 after you get it once.

If immunity after getting it isn't viable, then surely a vaccine isn't either?

Stamping out COVID19 worldwide simply isn't practical, so isn't the omly option to just live with it? We manage to live with far worse things, like ageing.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#179

Post by koheripbal » Sun, May 10, 2020, 3:09 PM UTC

ydb wrote: post #155

dang wrote: post #44

Three threads on this already: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23126517 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23127552 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23129216 Not sure this one is going any better. Celebrity frenzy multiplied by pandemic rage is producing as wild a burn as we've seen on HN. If you're about to comment here, could you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html first and ma…

Thank you for being a diamond in the rough, Dan. Your tireless work keeping Hacker News a safe haven for free thinkers and polite politic is essential during times like these.

I think we need to do more in this space. As HackerNews had become more popular, it has begun the inevitable transformation from a place of analysis to a place of advocacy.

...which inevitably results in a drop in quality and substance and a rise in partisanship.

HackerNews thrived for a long time by keeping under the radar, but what we really need now is a new mechanic that rewards dispationate analytic content and substance over partisanship meetoo content.

Behavioral guidelines and moderation don't work long term and don't scale.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#180

Post by chongli » Sun, May 10, 2020, 3:10 PM UTC

frereubu wrote: post #175

cheez wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unions helped kill the car companies

This does not necessarily follow. Car companies in Germany are heavily unionised and they’re not exactly struggling (at least no more than the entire industry).

Unions have a very different culture in the US as compared to Germany. American unions are in a highly adversarial relationship with their employers. This is compounded by a further adversarial relationship between certain political constituencies in the public and unions.

A lot of this can be attributed to the history of the 20th century and the different effects of communism in these respective countries. This may even be reflected in the differing attitudes towards tertiary education and vocational school.

It’s a very complicated issue with a lot of history.