Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We Chat, They Watch

citizenlab.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 555 posts

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#121

Post by fiblye »

yingliu4203 wrote: post #91
krzysiek wrote: post #74

Looking at the comments I think that most of commenters missed an important point. It's not just that the app is tracking users, but the messages sent by any non-Chinese user help the regime censor the content for Chinese users. In other words, if you use WeChat, and you send a photo of something that happened in Hong Kong along with some text that explains it, then you actually help Chinese authorities to censor thi…

Many Chinese-Americans have no choice when they need to communicate with family and friend living in China. No outside communication tools allowed in China.

Outside of China, we're pretty lucky that we can just register for random sites like HN with nothing more than a username and password and start talking.

Every Chinese site I've ever used requires phone number or ID verification. Most of them only allow Chinese-registered phones, meaning it's absolutely impossible to communicate with Chinese people from the outside world, aside from a very small number of carefully vetted services like WeChat.

But I fear the rest of the world looked at China and thought, "Wow, we should've done that a long time ago!" Accounts I registered about a decade ago now demand I confirm an email and sometimes a phone number. Email accounts I've had half my life lock me out unless I link it to my phone number and prove my identity. Some services ask for a fucking ID card scan, which prompts me to just drop the service. Some things I've used in the past only accept US phone area codes, which having left the US, means those services are now completely inaccessible to me.

China says it's for state security. They're at least kind of honest that their intention is to keep the population in check and watch their every movement. The rest of the world says it's for personal security. Then another day passes and another heap of phone numbers, names, SSNs, and addresses leak and another identity is stolen.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#122

Post by jdm2212 »

notlukesky wrote: post #95
jbombadil wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have never read "Reflections on Trusting Trust" by Ken Thompson, I wholeheartedly recommend it. It's a short read (3 pages), but absolutely worht your time. https://www.archive.ece.cmu.edu/~ganger/712.fall02/papers/p7...

Why is your link downvoted?

People might've mistaken it for pedantry/condescension? I certainly didn't take it that way (gave it an upvote) -- though I have read that paper, and was thinking of it when I wrote my original comment :)

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#123

Post by dvduval »

bosswipe wrote: post #33
dvduval wrote: post #25

I communicate regularly with people in mainland China. For me the best policy is just don't say anything that I would be too concerned about being shared. Of course, my behavior is the same for other apps. Beyond government-level type hacking, I feel a little more safe on some of the Chinese apps, as I know they have a stronger hand in their ability to stop hackers and scammers.

Self censoring is exactly what the authoritarian regime wants you to do.

I've been studying Chinese for 6 years. I probably know a thing or two about Chinese government. But obviously you've decided what you believe I know. Good for you.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#124

Post by nyolfen »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #119
hadtodoit wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully the US isn't a communist dictatorship

Can you define the characteristics of a communist dictatorship that are relevant here? Not the economic ones per se, but the ones that make you nervous about spying and media control.

putting minorities in concentration camps and state sanctioned ip theft are probably worth considering

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#127

Post by nyolfen »

cyphar wrote: post #107
forgot_again wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The false equivalency also begs a deeper moral analysis. Let's assume the US government has as complete access to iMessage and WhatsApp as the CCP does to WeChat. The story doesn't end there, since you have to examine the nature of the entities that have access to your information. Would I prefer that access be held by the US Government, which for all its faults is extremely engaged with and integrated into the globa…

I disagree with several aspects of your depiction of the US's "robust court system" (especially in the case of mass surveillance). There have been several attempts by citizens to sue the US Government for their illegal and indiscriminate surveillance programs, but have been stonewalled for years by government lawyers arguing that such cases should not happen in public courts (where they could be held accountable) due…

> But the key question is -- do you live in or have any connection to China? If not, then I would go with the CCP surveillance because there is no obvious mechanism for such surveillance to harm you directly.

they can spy on your business dealings and potentially find material to blackmail you

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#128

Post by xemdetia »

fiblye wrote: post #121
yingliu4203 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Chinese-Americans have no choice when they need to communicate with family and friend living in China. No outside communication tools allowed in China.

Outside of China, we're pretty lucky that we can just register for random sites like HN with nothing more than a username and password and start talking. Every Chinese site I've ever used requires phone number or ID verification. Most of them only allow Chinese-registered phones, meaning it's absolutely impossible to communicate with Chinese people from the outside world, aside from a very small number of carefully v…

Yes, it really is getting out of hand. If there was a reasonable equivalent that was an alternate (like an email address used to be), that would be one thing but even with a US phone all of a sudden your phone dies and you are completely stranded and even sites you used to be able to access are now no longer accessible because they are asking for phone numbers and confirmation of said numbers. It feels really awful.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#129

Post by jay_kyburz »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #119
hadtodoit wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully the US isn't a communist dictatorship

Can you define the characteristics of a communist dictatorship that are relevant here? Not the economic ones per se, but the ones that make you nervous about spying and media control.

We'll I don't know about the US, but I imagine it would be pretty hard to make somebody "disappear" here in Australia. I imagine out independent media would help get the word out.

Although we do have the "Witness K" indecent here in Australia. The media can't tell us much of that, but we do know about it. Sort of.

Post reply on HN