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Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

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Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#131

Post by ahsima1 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #66
cactus2093 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But... condo neighborhoods are exactly that medium density housing. Every city does need more condos in their existing neighborhoods if populations are able to grow. (Unless Covid-19 will reshape the trajectory of urbanization, and major cities will mostly shrink for the next several decades. That actually seems somewhat plausible). But writing off all the sidewalk labs ideas as gimmicky smartphone integrations is pr…

>> Every city does need more condos in their existing neighborhoods if populations are able to grow. Except that is in cities like Toronto/Vancouver more condos doesn't mean more people living in those condos. These are investment vehicles. Many of these new condo biuldings in trendy neighbourhoods sit empty, having been purchased as an investment rather than as a living space. What is needed is more rental units, no…

And increasing supply is a great way to make them bad investment vehicles

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#132

Post by na85 »

cal5k wrote: post #71
na85 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>how difficult it is to do business in Canada. Or, put differently, how difficult it is to exploit the public's privacy for financial gain in Canada? I'm Canadian, and I'm glad that Google didn't get carte blanche to come in and build their surveillance dystopia.

I'm not even a fan of that project in particular, but this is a common problem in Canada - the goalpost constantly shifts, the process becomes a political hot potato, and the foreign investor eventually just says "fuck this" and pulls out of the market. It's happened in oil & gas, banking, telecommunications, retail, and a whole host of other sectors.

I'm not going to disagree that our governments tend to play political hot potato. You can downvote all you like but I don't feel any sympathy for abusive "investors" like Big Tech or Big Oil who all too often socialize the risks but privatize the profits. See for example Amazon trying to get billions in tax breaks for HQ2. See also the Keystone XL or Northern Gateway projects. The oil companies have excellent propaganda machines operating tirelessly to convince Albertans that the rest of the country is being unreasonable when they demand environmental controls and assurances.

Not all investment is beneficial to the citizenry. I'd much rather my government err towards overcautious than overpermissive.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#133

Post by 52-6F-62 »

cal5k wrote: post #112
52-6F-62 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of retail, all of the rest of those have real national security implications. And if by retail you're referring to burger joints or Target, I'm afraid that's just market effect.

There's a big difference between considering national security issues and bungling foreign direct investment completely (except for real estate). It's also no excuse for the protection of oligopolies that don't act in the best interests of Canadians.

In that case I'll take the likely unpopular opinion that: it's better our assholes than someone else's.

And foreign direct investment in energy, food supplies, telecommunications absolutely has national security implications. I would be loathe to have a foreign entity become the major stateholder in our telecommunications infrastructure. I don't harbour any deep love of the Rogers family, but they are solidly Canadian at least.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#134

Post by 52-6F-62 »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #125
52-6F-62 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny enough the city is actually making some real changes due to the pandemic. They're currently in the process of opening up certain roadways to pedestrian and cycle traffic and closing some of them off to cars save for local traffic. They've stated some of these changes are temporary, and some possibly permanent. This includes expanding the current bike paths and speeding up implementation of already approved path…

We'll see if it materializes into a truly bold and long-term improvement (out of character for Toronto), or fizzles out into marginally effective solutions sandboxed into very limited time/space constraints (very much in character for Toronto).

We will indeed.

I'm hopeful, though. For all that can be said about Tory he has proven to react in the peoples' favour when he actual has to face the consequences of not acting. I'm referring to the case of our subways A/C breaking in the middle of summer heat waves. When he actually rode it end-to-end with someone who raised the issue with him and he stepped off at the end of the line drenched in sweat he actually acted and it tangibly improved.

I'm hoping this may be a similar situation and prove to be a silver lining.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#136

Post by ehsankia »

thinkloop wrote: post #106
cal5k wrote: post #54

People are cheering, but as a broader statement this is a small sample of how difficult it is to do business in Canada.

The article says the issue is Corona not Canada?

Whether the final blow was due to COVID-19 or if it was just an excuse, it doesn't change the fact that it's been an uphill battle for over 3 years with very little progress.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#137

Post by kspacewalk2 »

cal5k wrote: post #54

People are cheering, but as a broader statement this is a small sample of how difficult it is to do business in Canada.

True, it's difficult to slash and burn through the political process with half-baked techie ideas and opaque data collection practices. Not to mention ones requiring huge taxpayer commitments for a project that is way beyond the bleeding edge (at best) or a priori only partially achievable "but let's try it and see" (at worst).

Bureaucracy and elaborate processes slow things down. Every so often, that's a great thing.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#138

Post by kspacewalk2 »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #134
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll see if it materializes into a truly bold and long-term improvement (out of character for Toronto), or fizzles out into marginally effective solutions sandboxed into very limited time/space constraints (very much in character for Toronto).

We will indeed. I'm hopeful, though. For all that can be said about Tory he has proven to react in the peoples' favour when he actual has to face the consequences of not acting. I'm referring to the case of our subways A/C breaking in the middle of summer heat waves. When he actually rode it end-to-end with someone who raised the issue with him and he stepped off at the end of the line drenched in sweat he actually a…

That's a very low bar though, isn't it? I'd be happy with that kind of responsiveness from a mayor of a mid-sized Russian city appointed by Putin. Like ooh, we got lucky this time, the tsar sent us someone not entirely incompetent. I expect more from my Canadian elected officials. It's all about who the voters elect though, and what kind of feedback they give politicians, that's definitely true.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#139

Post by crazygringo »

supernova87a wrote: post #57

Google doesn't need to invest in the gadgets and electronics in the walls that appear to make cities smarter. That money would be better spent on enabling city governments, elected policymakers, and especially their constituents to be smarter and able to make better choices and designs about city planning, building permits, incentives, taxation, traffic, etc better. The rest will follow. What we need is for people to…

Why not both?

First of all, it's not either/or.

Second of all, better democratic decisionmaking has nothing to do with Google's expertise. There are plenty of political scientists and think tanks working on better decisionmaking processes. Spending Sidewalk Labs' money on them makes as much sense as asking for Kraft Foods or ExxonMobil to do so.

But third, good democratic governance requires data and provides services. If Google can help generate real-time data to improve services (and inform better decisions), how is that not a win?

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#140

Post by na85 »

My issue with Sidewalk Labs was the incredibly obvious facade they put up: pretending to care about making cities better when it really was just a thin veneer over finding new ways to expand surveillance capitalism. In fact their "Head of Urban Systems" was quoted[0] as saying that public discussions over data ownership and privacy were "irresponsible". The true agenda is plainly obvious to anyone who cares to look.

I'm heartened to see that there is a slow but growing opposition to parasitic business practices such as Sidewalk Labs' proposal and surveillance capitalism in general. Despite Zuckerberg's attempts to convince us that privacy is dead[1], I think people still realize on some base level that privacy, especially offline, is still valuable.

[0] https://www.citylab.com/design/2018/09/how-smart-should-a-ci...

[1] https://youtu.be/LoWKGBloMsU

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