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Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

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Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#61

Post by mdkrkeo9 »

cactus2093 wrote: post #45
nick_ wrote: post #39

Good. Toronto doesn't need condo neighbourhoods with gimmicky smart-phone integrations. It needs re-zoning of low density neighbourhoods to allow medium density to be built, thus more uniformly distributing the large and growing population.

But... condo neighborhoods are exactly that medium density housing. Every city does need more condos in their existing neighborhoods if populations are able to grow. (Unless Covid-19 will reshape the trajectory of urbanization, and major cities will mostly shrink for the next several decades. That actually seems somewhat plausible). But writing off all the sidewalk labs ideas as gimmicky smartphone integrations is pr…

None of those things require Google per se

Ultimately they require the community itself to take it upon themselves to do it

Which is hard since they are tasked with using their time to prop up big corps profit machinery most days

I wonder if there’s economic benefit to leaving peoples wealth in their communities instead of extracting it into silos for the investment whims of a minority of global elites

Curious if that model of thinking could be of use to North American culture

Since Google doesn’t seem like really doing it, may be worth having a real think on it if you’re so sure it all needs to be done

Shit n hellfire, American’s need to stop ogling the behaviors of others and behave exceptionally themselves. That might be useful to North America.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#62

Post by seanmcdirmid »

sudosysgen wrote: post #46
cactus2093 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But... condo neighborhoods are exactly that medium density housing. Every city does need more condos in their existing neighborhoods if populations are able to grow. (Unless Covid-19 will reshape the trajectory of urbanization, and major cities will mostly shrink for the next several decades. That actually seems somewhat plausible). But writing off all the sidewalk labs ideas as gimmicky smartphone integrations is pr…

Condos are too expensive in general to fulfill the needs of most cities. In general construction of new condos is focused on the luxury kind of condos Google was undoubtedly looking at, which are absolutely not what cities need right now. We need affordable housing.

Condos are actually not expensive, just in the USA where they are mostly luxury products. In many other countries, condos are normal (and are called apartments or something similar) and much more affordable than single family homes or town homes.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#63

Post by claudeganon »

briffle wrote: post #53
sudosysgen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Condos are too expensive in general to fulfill the needs of most cities. In general construction of new condos is focused on the luxury kind of condos Google was undoubtedly looking at, which are absolutely not what cities need right now. We need affordable housing.

Building Luxury condos does create affordable housing. Where do you think those people move from? interesting thought from this link: If you destroy 10,000 luxury condo's in Toronto tomorrow, will your prices go down? https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/8/1/how-luxury-hous...

...or international investors buy them up as an asset store or to launder money, leaving them mostly vacant. We unfortunately live in the real world, not an economist’s toy box, and have the example of Vancouver to prove it.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#64

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

briffle wrote: post #53
sudosysgen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Condos are too expensive in general to fulfill the needs of most cities. In general construction of new condos is focused on the luxury kind of condos Google was undoubtedly looking at, which are absolutely not what cities need right now. We need affordable housing.

Building Luxury condos does create affordable housing. Where do you think those people move from? interesting thought from this link: If you destroy 10,000 luxury condo's in Toronto tomorrow, will your prices go down? https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/8/1/how-luxury-hous...

People who buy luxury condos are probably not vacating affordable housing to do so.

Why would you think that to be the case?

The Strong Towns link you provided gives two examples of apartments build approximately a century ago.

Trickle-down economics at its best.

Build luxury apartments, fine. Probably not exclusively though, as in many cities the need is more pressing than that.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#65

Post by sudosysgen »

refurb wrote: post #48
sudosysgen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Condos are too expensive in general to fulfill the needs of most cities. In general construction of new condos is focused on the luxury kind of condos Google was undoubtedly looking at, which are absolutely not what cities need right now. We need affordable housing.

Condos are too expensive in general to fulfill the needs of most cities. What the alternative? It's either single family home or condominiums (apartments).

Not necessarily, no. First, condominiums are not apartments, because they are supposed to be sold, and in general cannot be rented. This means that they are built for and priced for people that can afford a 450000$ mortgage plus large condominium fees every month. Which are not the people that need housing right now.

There are also duplexes and triplexes, and apartments, as well as housing co-ops and subsidized or state-built housing. These are much better, imo, than condos.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#66

Post by sandworm101 »

cactus2093 wrote: post #45
nick_ wrote: post #39

Good. Toronto doesn't need condo neighbourhoods with gimmicky smart-phone integrations. It needs re-zoning of low density neighbourhoods to allow medium density to be built, thus more uniformly distributing the large and growing population.

But... condo neighborhoods are exactly that medium density housing. Every city does need more condos in their existing neighborhoods if populations are able to grow. (Unless Covid-19 will reshape the trajectory of urbanization, and major cities will mostly shrink for the next several decades. That actually seems somewhat plausible). But writing off all the sidewalk labs ideas as gimmicky smartphone integrations is pr…

>> Every city does need more condos in their existing neighborhoods if populations are able to grow.

Except that is in cities like Toronto/Vancouver more condos doesn't mean more people living in those condos. These are investment vehicles. Many of these new condo biuldings in trendy neighbourhoods sit empty, having been purchased as an investment rather than as a living space. What is needed is more rental units, not more places for rich people to park money.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#67

Post by na85 »

cal5k wrote: post #54

People are cheering, but as a broader statement this is a small sample of how difficult it is to do business in Canada.

>how difficult it is to do business in Canada.

Or, put differently, how difficult it is to exploit the public's privacy for financial gain in Canada?

I'm Canadian, and I'm glad that Google didn't get carte blanche to come in and build their surveillance dystopia.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#68

Post by 52-6F-62 »

supernova87a wrote: post #57

Google doesn't need to invest in the gadgets and electronics in the walls that appear to make cities smarter. That money would be better spent on enabling city governments, elected policymakers, and especially their constituents to be smarter and able to make better choices and designs about city planning, building permits, incentives, taxation, traffic, etc better. The rest will follow. What we need is for people to…

And that's what I thought the original mission of Sidewalk Labs was. They seemed to do more research and less city-building.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#69

Post by pb7 »

at_a_remove wrote: post #50

Does this count for the Google Graveyard? I'm still waiting for that miraculous Google Fiber to come rolling in here. I am wondering precisely how projects get the green light at Google. This kind of thing is just ... it's like someone read some shiny-eyed sci-fi story from the 1950s and decided to Brave New World it into being with metrics without asking if anyone would find it objectionable or even desirable.

Google Fiber was a major success that got ousted by the incumbents with never ending lawsuits and resistance. Take your anger out on the monopoly ISPs across the country.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#70

Post by 52-6F-62 »

cactus2093 wrote: post #45
nick_ wrote: post #39

Good. Toronto doesn't need condo neighbourhoods with gimmicky smart-phone integrations. It needs re-zoning of low density neighbourhoods to allow medium density to be built, thus more uniformly distributing the large and growing population.

But... condo neighborhoods are exactly that medium density housing. Every city does need more condos in their existing neighborhoods if populations are able to grow. (Unless Covid-19 will reshape the trajectory of urbanization, and major cities will mostly shrink for the next several decades. That actually seems somewhat plausible). But writing off all the sidewalk labs ideas as gimmicky smartphone integrations is pr…

Funny enough the city is actually making some real changes due to the pandemic.

They're currently in the process of opening up certain roadways to pedestrian and cycle traffic and closing some of them off to cars save for local traffic. They've stated some of these changes are temporary, and some possibly permanent. This includes expanding the current bike paths and speeding up implementation of already approved paths.

The program is called ActiveTO. It was just announced.

https://www.toronto.ca/home/media-room/news-releases-media-a...

---

Edit: Adding the following quote as a decent summary of the intentions of the project:

> “Our streets are going to look different in many places in the post-COVID world. We will need more road space for walking. We will need quiet streets. We will need more bike infrastructure. We are going about this in a responsible, common sense way with Toronto Public Health, Transportation Services and local councillors all involved in making common sense, health-focused decisions which broaden out our transportation network."

- Mayor John Tory

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