US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M • Hacker News Board

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#141

Post by nickff » Mon, May 04, 2020, 4:52 AM UTC

JSavageOne wrote: post #138

flipgimble wrote: post #99

This article has an unexpected resonance for me after several weeks of pandemic lockdown. Just three months ago I would have laughed it off. Now I am increasingly pissed off. In the US, but I see reflection of this in Europe as well, has allowed irresponsible puerile imbeciles to be elected. These people play games with wealth and power, with no regard to the lives and well-being of the society that pays for it. I di…

The problem is largely the democratic system itself. The average U.S. Senator spends 2/3 of their time fundraising during the last 2 years of their term. Half of Congress are millionaires, their salaries are in the 95th percentile ($174k/yr), and they receive world-class healthcare. The electoral college means Trump and Bush get elected despite losing the popular vote. We're limited to a two-party system because thir…

Many people dislike the 'easy verify and submit' system of taxes, because they think it basically hides taxes from the public. There are similar objections to employer deduction of taxes. Additionally, the current system of many different taxes on different things makes it very hard for a voter to understand what their total tax burden is (especially if there are VATs which are included in prices). For these reasons, many think 'simplified' taxes are anti-democratic.

As an example; more voters know how much they spend on Netflix or Amazon Prime than how much they spend on government, meaning they are better equipped to hold streaming services accountable than their government, even though the latter costs them (at least) hundreds of times more.

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#142

Post by nmfisher » Mon, May 04, 2020, 4:53 AM UTC

Afforess wrote: post #109

twomoretime wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an old saying that people deserve their rulers.

This attitude is toxic and worse, incorrect. The majority of Americans did not vote for our President. I live in Austin, and my state district in TX includes a tiny slice of a city hundreds of miles away, Houston. Many state districts are like this, gerrymandered to prevent my vote from counting. Some places have it worse, DC, the capital, has no representation at all (fun trivia: Google the DC license plate). The vo…

The 50% of people who didn’t vote in the last election are equally responsible for the current President as those who did (and every president prior, too).

I agree wholeheartedly that a democratic government reflects its voters. A largely apathetic, non-voting populace exaggerates the effect of gerrymandering, campaign finance and media manipulation.

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#143

Post by withdavidli » Mon, May 04, 2020, 4:53 AM UTC

Afforess wrote: post #128

Fricken wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can rise up and fix the system and get the leader you deserve, or you can complain about and do nothing else, and in that case you'll end up with the leader you deserve.

This is more of the same sanctimonious toxicity. You don't know me. I already donate to act blue. I already go to political rally's. I already help get friends to go vote. I already am a member of local political groups. I am still not represented. No state or federal ballot I have ever cast has counted. Please don't tell people that they would ever deserve our current leaders. People deserve safety, stability, and b…

Disclaimer that I use similar remarks to the quote you disagree with. This is with the understanding that the price that needs to be paid will literally take lives at times, and that there is little to no fairness at who bears that cost.

That being said, you seem to be quite active politically and doing more than most in this arena. At what point do you give up and move to where you think you'll be represented? This is assuming you have the means to go elsewhere. Some people operate on moving to where they are treated best, that includes the option of a different country.

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#144

Post by alden_penny » Mon, May 04, 2020, 4:55 AM UTC

s5300 wrote: post #135

flipgimble wrote: post #99

This article has an unexpected resonance for me after several weeks of pandemic lockdown. Just three months ago I would have laughed it off. Now I am increasingly pissed off. In the US, but I see reflection of this in Europe as well, has allowed irresponsible puerile imbeciles to be elected. These people play games with wealth and power, with no regard to the lives and well-being of the society that pays for it. I di…

Quite tired and ill right now so I'm unfortunately not going to be able to write this out even slightly well... but for some reason, I want to post the thought anyway so I will. (Note: I'm a U.S. citizen) In short: As an engineering student with quite severe chronic illness that also got fucked over by abusive parents/a broken home I couldn't escape even with scholarships... I simply can't come to the moral conclusio…

I'm a software engineer and have given considerable thought to leaving the US because I am struggling to come to terms with how my taxes are spent and politics in general here. It's universally bad. I'm considering Finland, Sweden, Norway, or Switzerland. They all rank high in happiness, high in democratic representation, and low in corruption. All are difficult to immigrate to but I basically feel a moral obligation to explore the option

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#145

Post by Fricken » Mon, May 04, 2020, 5:02 AM UTC

Afforess wrote: post #128

Fricken wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can rise up and fix the system and get the leader you deserve, or you can complain about and do nothing else, and in that case you'll end up with the leader you deserve.

This is more of the same sanctimonious toxicity. You don't know me. I already donate to act blue. I already go to political rally's. I already help get friends to go vote. I already am a member of local political groups. I am still not represented. No state or federal ballot I have ever cast has counted. Please don't tell people that they would ever deserve our current leaders. People deserve safety, stability, and b…

The universe is the ultimate authority on what people do and don't deserve and I don't think you'll like what it has to say on the matter.

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#146

Post by JSavageOne » Mon, May 04, 2020, 5:03 AM UTC

nickff wrote: post #141

JSavageOne wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is largely the democratic system itself. The average U.S. Senator spends 2/3 of their time fundraising during the last 2 years of their term. Half of Congress are millionaires, their salaries are in the 95th percentile ($174k/yr), and they receive world-class healthcare. The electoral college means Trump and Bush get elected despite losing the popular vote. We're limited to a two-party system because thir…

Many people dislike the 'easy verify and submit' system of taxes, because they think it basically hides taxes from the public. There are similar objections to employer deduction of taxes. Additionally, the current system of many different taxes on different things makes it very hard for a voter to understand what their total tax burden is (especially if there are VATs which are included in prices). For these reasons,…

> because they think it basically hides taxes from the public

Well that's factually false because taxpayers can see all the information and verify it for themselves (that's what they're supposed to do before they verify it). Who exactly is arguing that making tax filing easier is "anti-democratic"? A couple American tax extremists? The Intuit lobby?

If the U.S. can't even make something as simple as tax filing easier, then the U.S. is hopeless when it comes to bigger issues. We're already the only country without universal healthcare and where an undergraduate degree at a public school costs six figures. How can we fix those bigger and more "complex" problems if we can't even fix something as dead simple and bipartisan as tax filing?

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#147

Post by [deleted] » Mon, May 04, 2020, 5:05 AM UTC

glangdale wrote: post #104

redis_mlc wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some states like CA were prepared CA has a stockpile that was allowed to deteoriate due to budget cuts. So the initial impression was that we weren't prepared, but then we reassessed the situation and gave away at least 500 ventilators to other states as we felt more confident. Luckily, Bay Area and LA residents travel to China a lot, so we already had substantial herd immunity by February 1. You can see that in th…

> Luckily, Bay Area and LA residents travel to China a lot, so we already had substantial herd immunity by February 1. Ummn, what? This sounds like an entirely made up factoid, and certainly isn't supported by the dashboard. The estimates of how many people in a population have to have had COVID-19 are very high. Even if you buy the Stanford study, which is itself controversial, the estimated numbers for how many hav…

[deleted]

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#148

Post by Animats » Mon, May 04, 2020, 5:05 AM UTC

xkapastel wrote: post #3

> In testimony before a Congressional Committee, it has been asserted that a prolonged collapse of this nation’s electrical grid—through starvation, disease, and societal collapse—could result in the death of up to 90% of the American population. This could happen at any time due to a solar flare. The coronavirus has made it pretty clear that America is completely unprepared for any sort of major deviation from "norm…

This could happen at any time due to a solar flare.

Actually, no. If you want to read what happens in such an event, see section 3.8.2 of the PJM Emergency Procedures Manual.[1] You get DC current to ground in AC transformers, which results in saturation of the magnetic elements and transformer heating. It's a heat problem; it has to be dealt with in minutes, not milliseconds.

That document is addressed to the people in the grid control room. There used to be a training course on line which explained this in simpler terms.

[1] https://www.pjm.com/~/media/documents/manuals/m13.ashx

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#149

Post by JSavageOne » Mon, May 04, 2020, 5:12 AM UTC

nmfisher wrote: post #142

Afforess wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude is toxic and worse, incorrect. The majority of Americans did not vote for our President. I live in Austin, and my state district in TX includes a tiny slice of a city hundreds of miles away, Houston. Many state districts are like this, gerrymandered to prevent my vote from counting. Some places have it worse, DC, the capital, has no representation at all (fun trivia: Google the DC license plate). The vo…

The 50% of people who didn’t vote in the last election are equally responsible for the current President as those who did (and every president prior, too). I agree wholeheartedly that a democratic government reflects its voters. A largely apathetic, non-voting populace exaggerates the effect of gerrymandering, campaign finance and media manipulation.

You realize Trump lost the popular vote right?

Also due to the electoral college and the winner-take-all way in which voting is designed in the U.S, your vote for president only matters if you live in a swing state. If you live in California or New York, there's basically no point in voting for president because there's such a large Democratic majority and it's winner-take-all.

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#150

Post by 8bitsrule » Mon, May 04, 2020, 5:12 AM UTC

It's a very complex topic. But clearly any country heavily invested in and reliant on technology must include a significant fraction of tech/science literate leaders ... an actual requirement for (half of?) any state's Congress-critters.

To whatever extent 'terrorism' is a real threat (and not just an excuse to maintain the military budget), many other dangers like pandemics and an EMP event and climate change were outlined decades ago. F-35s and aircraft carriers and hundreds of military bases won't cut it against them. Nor will faith.