Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just disable snapd after you have achieved your ideal configuration. But yes, this should be a setting somewhere...
The problem with that is you are fighting the platform. That's not a great place to be. Unless your disagreement with the platform's design is small enough you are likely to be better choosing a more appropriate platform.
Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it
471–480 of 645 posts
Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it
#472Earlier quoted context omitted.
You have misjudged who actually uses Linux. This setting would be ideal for all the billions of people Canonical wishes used Ubuntu.
Yes... Isn't that what I said?
The idea that you "misjudged who actually uses Linux" was based on the assumption that you think a product should generally cater to its users. If instead you think most of the users should leave, then okay, that's a valid opinion, it's just surprising.
Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it
#473Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is. Hard, but possible, just the way it should be.
Enterprise and Education only.
After having an update happen at a bad time, one closing a file I hadn't yet saved, and another killing a process of computations I had been leaving to run overnight, I decided that I wanted to use my computer the way I saw fit, not the way someone else saw fit. If someone cannot wrap their head around the idea that I might leave a process running while I sleep, or that I might forget to save something in a program that doesn't have an autosave feature, well, they're not considering all of the use cases.
For giggles, after LTSB I did "all the things" to get rid of forced updates on one particularly infrequently-used tablet and, as an experiment, left it unpatched for slightly over a year before seeing what would happen once I finally let it do its thing. For one, the updates took about three and a half hours, which I thought was interesting; just re-installing would likely be faster.
More interesting, though, was that the world did not end because I had not patched this tablet.
I get aiming at the eighty percent of your users who just would not think to update, but being that hostile to the other twenty percent who are aware of updates and still would like that control is annoying. It is sad to see that this kind of thinking has made its way to Linuxland, which I had imagined to be the last bastion of "we're doing this for your own good."
Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it
#474Earlier quoted context omitted.
>This is the exact reason I use Linux instead of Windows 10 or macOS Not sure about win10, but macOS won't autoupdate apps if you turned it off. If the app is not from an app store - it's up to the devs to have option to (auto) update. Most apps allow you to turn autoupdate off (in fact I can't think of single one without this option)
This is from another user in this thread: > I've used both Windows and OSX for my professional work and while Windows is the worst offender when it comes to automatic updates, OSX is pretty horrible as well. At least with Windows you can expect some sort of backwards compatibility, while on OSX, one day you have to upgrade your entire OS, otherwise Notes or some stupid application won't launch. - capableweb I used to…
Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it
#475Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is particularly bad during the freeze before the new stable version comes out. Some updates can be delayed for months.
Also security updates? Wouldn't that make the new version insecure at launch until someone pushes a thousand security updates at once (making it kind of 'testing' again because none of these were in testing before and thus haven't been widely tested)? You raise a good point since I notice I don't know the process as well as I thought I did, but it seems odd that the frozen testing repo would only get all security upd…
The Debian wiki mentions that delays can be specially large after a new release comes out. I don't know if I was misremembering it or if it can be problematic both before and after a stable release comes out. Hopefully someone with more Debian experience can clear this up.
Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it
#476Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are some downsides (footprint, forced updates, speed, etc.), though depending on what you're installing those may not be deal-breakers. I'm using plain Ubuntu 20.04 and I tend to install stuff via apt and not snap in general (but I am fine with installing non-essential things via snap). The software store has a subtle toggle in the upper right for choosing to install a package as a snap or via apt when both are…
Yeah, is there a plan for it to long-term replace apt? I've just always used apt as my first choice and then snap for random things like spotify.
Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it
#477Earlier quoted context omitted.
snaps are intended for non-power-users that don't want to deal with dependencies. Those users want things to mostly work without worrying about murky downsides. Auto-updating is exactly the right behavior. If this is of concern to you, why are you using snaps? And why Ubuntu? What's the value-add over Debian?
The concern is that there's no simple way to disable auto-updates. If you want Ubuntu to turn into Windows, why not just use Windows?
Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it
#478Earlier quoted context omitted.
Set your system up to have like 90% of the available disk space for /home. Rest is root. You can replace your whole system within half an hour.
Personally, and I'm not new to this, I find these partitioned setups to be quite a pain. On server systems I can see the point of limiting /var/log and /tmp and such, but on simple desktops, I only know of people dreading the decision to go with that historical setup instead of one big root.
Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it
#479Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ubuntu tried shipping wayland on by default already and it was a clusterf* and made that release all but unusable. Wayland isn't ready for an LTS release yet.
Wayland is the default display server for Red Hat Enterprise Linux 8. I have been running Wayland for the last 2 years and have never had any problems. (Admittedly I haven't used Nvidia)
> Admittedly I haven't used Nvidia
Yeah, that. Not supporting ~half the video cards in the world sounds like a clusterf*. I know it's largely nvidia's fault, but at the same time, I have a lot of investment with them, and none w/ wayland.
Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it
#480Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If we all agree that on the whole auto-updating software is generally better and more secure than manually updated software, why not single out the applications that haven't migrated instead of blaming the whole standard? Everyone certainly don’t agree on that. It really depends on the situation. And if that’s what you want, you had that already with unattended-upgrades. I really prefer to manage what updates, how,…
Unattended upgrades is a great example. You must manually install it, it's difficult to configure (you must edit some complex text file) and even then with it on and set to update all types of packages it often still doesn't. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but in my long experience with Ubuntu I've found unattended-upgrades very unreliable. I get that some people prefer a less secure ecosystem and never want to upda…
The solution to that would be to fix unattended-upgrades and ship it as working by default, with an easy-to-use script to remove it. I bet that would have been orders of magnitude easier than developing snap.
But that would have kept the onus of packaging, testing, and delivering updates on Ubuntu. Instead, with snaps, they can offload all that to upstream developers. That is really the endgame here. Snap is a play for developers, not for users.
Ubuntu are saying to developers "if you build a snap, you don't have to worry ever again about distro differences! And you can update anything you need, at will!" and in exchange Ubuntu get to reduce their support costs. Win-win, right? And it is... except for power-users, who will get autoupdates shoved down their throats and their mount tables polluted up the wazoo. But nobody in Ubuntu ever cared about power-users on the desktop, really, so no news there.