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Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

jatan.blog

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Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#371

Post by Spooky23 »

lukeschlather wrote: post #281
Spooky23 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a consumer, sure. In a business setting, it seems irresponsible to be to allow every random server to have an un-inspectable VPN.

It seems irresponsible to inject devices into your network that that indiscriminately MITM all traffic and can easily be configured to log passwords and auth cookies, no matter what setting you're in.

You transmit passwords from servers to internet destinations?

That would be a pretty serious security incident from my POV.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#372

Post by matheusmoreira »

gfxgirl wrote: post #280
jorams wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft didn't have a choice. Given an option regular users will never update their computers I think this is a misconception. A few weeks ago I was updating my Windows 7 install that hadn't booted for a year or so. I opened Windows Update. It looked for updates, and found some. I clicked the update button. It proceeded to start downloading, by which I mean it would hang for 1 to 2 minutes and then download very…

45 to 90 mins to update my Macs. They might not reboot 5 to 10 times but it's not quick. 19.04 Ubuntu just died on me today (I know some expert could have gotten in working). Apparently 19.04 support ended and someone took down the servers. So trying to update would tell me something about the servers having no release file. And they wouldn't let me update to 20.04 until I patched 19.04. I never modded anything. What…

I don't know why major distribution upgrades are so unreliable. I used to be a Fedora user and it was pretty much impossible to upgrade the distribution version without breaking a lot of stuff. The package manager corrupted its own database once. I switched to Arch Linux and never had these problems ever again despite all the memes about Arch being unstable.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#373

Post by michaelmrose »

neetfreek wrote: post #328
nromiun wrote: post #285

> Snap applications auto-update and that’s fine if Ubuntu wants to keep systems secure. But it can’t even be turned off manually. OMG. Is this real? This is the exact reason I use Linux instead of Windows 10 or macOS. I am not a grandma who can't stay up to date on tech news. At the least there should be a toggle for power users. But no, you can only defer it. Am I the only one who doesn't like it when your already s…

Point taken on the shoddy behaviour, but if you'd like to try it out there's this helpful post on disabling snap[1] shared here[2] when I installed 20.04. Quick and painless! 1. https://www.kevin-custer.com/blog/disabling-snaps-in-ubuntu-... 2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22972661 *Edited

While this is indeed helpful why do I want a version of Linux that has to be decrapified like Windows immediately after install and may with a future update may need to be fixed again. If you use non LTS you will have to "fix" it every 6 months.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#374

Post by konart »

nromiun wrote: post #285

> Snap applications auto-update and that’s fine if Ubuntu wants to keep systems secure. But it can’t even be turned off manually. OMG. Is this real? This is the exact reason I use Linux instead of Windows 10 or macOS. I am not a grandma who can't stay up to date on tech news. At the least there should be a toggle for power users. But no, you can only defer it. Am I the only one who doesn't like it when your already s…

>This is the exact reason I use Linux instead of Windows 10 or macOS

Not sure about win10, but macOS won't autoupdate apps if you turned it off.

If the app is not from an app store - it's up to the devs to have option to (auto) update. Most apps allow you to turn autoupdate off (in fact I can't think of single one without this option)

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#375

Post by michaelmrose »

dima55 wrote: post #359
nromiun wrote: post #285

> Snap applications auto-update and that’s fine if Ubuntu wants to keep systems secure. But it can’t even be turned off manually. OMG. Is this real? This is the exact reason I use Linux instead of Windows 10 or macOS. I am not a grandma who can't stay up to date on tech news. At the least there should be a toggle for power users. But no, you can only defer it. Am I the only one who doesn't like it when your already s…

snaps are intended for non-power-users that don't want to deal with dependencies. Those users want things to mostly work without worrying about murky downsides. Auto-updating is exactly the right behavior. If this is of concern to you, why are you using snaps? And why Ubuntu? What's the value-add over Debian?

You have misjudged who actually uses Linux. This setting would be ideal for all the billions of people Canonical wishes used Ubuntu.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#376

Post by bboozzoo »

bgorman wrote: post #362
abeyer wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu tried shipping wayland on by default already and it was a clusterf* and made that release all but unusable. Wayland isn't ready for an LTS release yet.

Wayland is the default display server for Red Hat Enterprise Linux 8. I have been running Wayland for the last 2 years and have never had any problems. (Admittedly I haven't used Nvidia)

Can you share a single window in eg. Meet? Do alternative input methods work for accessibility?

FWIW I would like Wayland to finally take off, but each time there some random shit that's still broken despite 12 years of development.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#377

Post by fgonzag »

ultrarunner wrote: post #294
nromiun wrote: post #285

> Snap applications auto-update and that’s fine if Ubuntu wants to keep systems secure. But it can’t even be turned off manually. OMG. Is this real? This is the exact reason I use Linux instead of Windows 10 or macOS. I am not a grandma who can't stay up to date on tech news. At the least there should be a toggle for power users. But no, you can only defer it. Am I the only one who doesn't like it when your already s…

We work at remote sites on cell connections. Part of the reason we moved to Ubuntu from Windows was the ability to control data usage, which is expensive. Automatic updates quickly become a significant slice of the bill when random decisions like these get pushed on users. Ubuntu was supposed to help prevent us from needing to chase this.

pop_os should fit the bill. Based in ubuntu, with a better UI, and has flatpack support and added polish

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#378

Post by michaelmrose »

gfxgirl wrote: post #333
bdamm wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not insecure-by-default, that's just you having a (legitimate) issue with the distribution chain. Insecure-by-default is installing software that has known weaknesses. That the process doesn't work for you doesn't mean the software is weak.

Are they sandboxed individually? If not it's insecure by default. I mostly don't mind auto-updates on iOS and maybe Android as they're at least supposed to be each app sandboxed by default. MacOS is getting better at this. Windows sucks at it. Where is snaps on that spectrum?

Sandboxing outside of actually using a VM isn't very secure on Ubuntu. The parent poster also said "server" nobody runs IOS on their server.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#379

Post by neetfreek »

m-p-3 wrote: post #340
neetfreek wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point taken on the shoddy behaviour, but if you'd like to try it out there's this helpful post on disabling snap[1] shared here[2] when I installed 20.04. Quick and painless! 1. https://www.kevin-custer.com/blog/disabling-snaps-in-ubuntu-... 2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22972661 *Edited

At that point I'll just use Debian.

It's dawning on me that it's likely to only become more of a pain with each iteration of upgrades (e.g. install tweaks, synaptic, remove apport... And now remove snaps).

Time to check out Debian!

*Edited. I can't type on phones.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#380

Post by nromiun »

konart wrote: post #374
nromiun wrote: post #285

> Snap applications auto-update and that’s fine if Ubuntu wants to keep systems secure. But it can’t even be turned off manually. OMG. Is this real? This is the exact reason I use Linux instead of Windows 10 or macOS. I am not a grandma who can't stay up to date on tech news. At the least there should be a toggle for power users. But no, you can only defer it. Am I the only one who doesn't like it when your already s…

>This is the exact reason I use Linux instead of Windows 10 or macOS Not sure about win10, but macOS won't autoupdate apps if you turned it off. If the app is not from an app store - it's up to the devs to have option to (auto) update. Most apps allow you to turn autoupdate off (in fact I can't think of single one without this option)

This is from another user in this thread:

> I've used both Windows and OSX for my professional work and while Windows is the worst offender when it comes to automatic updates, OSX is pretty horrible as well. At least with Windows you can expect some sort of backwards compatibility, while on OSX, one day you have to upgrade your entire OS, otherwise Notes or some stupid application won't launch.

- capableweb

I used to run OS X some time ago. When even Windows supported turning off auto updates. These days I am seeing Github issues saying that they can't use brew, clang etc because there is a update. And most of the time the updates are just huge (even compared to Windows).

Is this not true? Can you put off OS updates for some time (a few hours is enough for me) and keep using XCode, brew etc?

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