Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

661–670 of 877 posts

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#661

Post by mcphage »

stcredzero wrote: post #650
mcphage wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It definitely doesn't, but it does change the tenor and content of those protests.

it does change the tenor and content of those protests. If people who shouldn't have political power gain it by listening to the neglected, the proper course of action isn't to denigrate the people. Take back that power by listening.

> If people who shouldn't have political power gain it by listening to the neglected, the proper course of action isn't to denigrate the people.

He didn't get it by listening to the neglected. He got it by spending money. The protests in my city, like in most places, were primarily people saying "I want people to work for me!" and not "I want to work!". Also had some confederate flags thrown in, because why not.

> Take back that power by listening.

If I were to listen, I would hear that people don't want to be forced to choose between survival and health.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#662

Post by shiningdays »

jdhn wrote: post #455
mcphilip wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is anecdotal and it might come across as bitter and tonedeaf as someone who is not in a STEM job and cant see the bigger picture very well. Im a diesel engine tech who repairs those big trucks carrying food and shit tickets to grocery stores. the fact that ANY market is completely detached from whats actually happening to Americans is frustrating. Thanks for posting this comment. I know it sounds trite, but I’…

>My question is how much, if any, social unrest this will lead to. The only social unrest that has happened so far have been the protests about wanting to lift or ease restrictions on states, and they were widely panned as a bunch of nutjobs. I doubt there will be any "unrest" beyond the protests.

> The only social unrest that has happened so far

Keyword being "so far". In Italy, where people have been out of work for months, things are starting to get dicey. Here are some links:

- [Sky News: Coronavirus: Italy becoming impatient with lockdown - and social unrest is brewing](https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-italy-becoming-impati...) - [The Guardian: Singing stops in Italy as fear and social unrest mount ](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/01/singing-stops-...)

There's more but I won't flood you. The point I'm trying to make is that things _so far_ are okay, but will get increasingly dicey if people don't have access to food and the necessities for living.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#663

Post by econcon »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #570
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because the top has looted the economy, leaving little or nothing for the rest of us. Its not a reflection on the bottom 50% at all.

> That's because the top has looted the economy Can you explain how this happens? How does one "loot" one of the largest economies in the world?

It's simple:

Think about it, a CEO of a big company is more likely to be in social circle of the politicians, judges and regulators.

They are more likely to be sympathetic to their immediate acquaintance who they see every week rather than those poor social economic class people who they have nothing in common with.

Add some dilllusion and descrimination in the mix, like "they are poor because they are lazy" and it becomes easy to make policies which benefit your immediate social circle.

And lot of poor people don't even have time or motivation to analyze those policies and even if someone manages to do that, they don't have enough influence to do anything about it.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#664

Post by nickff »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #511

It's pretty insane that the S&P500 is higher than it was during October last year, hell even something like 7% higher than it was last year May. There was a post on reddit joking about a guy going into a coma last year after having purchased a share of an S&P500 ETF, waking up today and hearing the news of a global pandemic, people were told to quarantine at home for more than a month, a quarter million people died,…

This could also just be a 'bull-trap', and the major stock indices could collapse soon. There was a major bull-trap at the beginning of the great depression.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#665

Post by stcredzero »

harikb wrote: post #556
stcredzero wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only social unrest that has happened so far have been the protests about wanting to lift or ease restrictions on states, and they were widely panned as a bunch of nutjobs. It's easy to look down on people lower on the socioeconomic ladder. They're still human beings. They've been given this raw deal: For the greater good, you will now give up your job for an indefinite period of time, with no prospect of finding…

> one perceives as deplorable There is no reason to bring that reference in an otherwise non-political discussion.

There is no reason to bring that reference in an otherwise non-political discussion.

It's hard to separate socioeconomic differentials from politics. And I specifically use deplorable to call out the political excesses of my own accustomed "tribe."

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#666

Post by lostapathy »

RankingMember wrote: post #655
yters wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree the situation is clear. To take the logical extreme, if we were to avoid all possible immediate threat to life, no one should leave the house, let alone drive to work. Obviously, our society would immediately collapse, and many millions would die. So we have to balance possible immediate threats against likely longer term consequences. Something we do not seem to be doing very well in the case of covid-19.

> I disagree the situation is clear I'm confused, do you actually think the mortality rate of a down economy will be anywhere near that of a pandemic? Let me know if I'm misinterpreting you here but it sure seems like this is what you're arguing.

If said "down economy" led to a long-term depression or a year or two of lost crops due to any number of possible disruptions, we could easily see more death (both directly and due to social unrest, suicide, etc).

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#667

Post by stcredzero »

mcphage wrote: post #661
stcredzero wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it does change the tenor and content of those protests. If people who shouldn't have political power gain it by listening to the neglected, the proper course of action isn't to denigrate the people. Take back that power by listening.

> If people who shouldn't have political power gain it by listening to the neglected, the proper course of action isn't to denigrate the people. He didn't get it by listening to the neglected. He got it by spending money. The protests in my city, like in most places, were primarily people saying "I want people to work for me!" and not "I want to work!". Also had some confederate flags thrown in, because why not. > Ta…

If I were to listen,

If you were to listen.

I would hear that people don't want to be forced to choose between survival and health.

Losing your home, losing the ability to pay for healthcare, perhaps losing custody of your children or losing your already strained marriage -- these are all serious issues which may greatly impact the survival and health of many people.

One thing which tone-deafness is often a symptom of, is that one has lost a bit of the capacity to think of certain others as full, equal in worth, human beings. I know this from first hand experience.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#668

Post by rconti »

nimbius wrote: post #98

This is anecdotal and it might come across as bitter and tonedeaf as someone who is not in a STEM job and cant see the bigger picture very well. Im a diesel engine tech who repairs those big trucks carrying food and shit tickets to grocery stores. the fact that ANY market is completely detached from whats actually happening to Americans is frustrating. My job just cut benefits and hours but we're "essential." Remembe…

If the country feels rudderless and without leadership, it is.

The top is, well, obviously, useless.

State leadership is all doing different things, which is, in some ways, a good thing, but I don't hear much in a concrete way about what the plan is to address this all over the next 12-18 months. We hear a lot about when we'll "open things back up" or phased re-openings, but nothing whatsoever about a strategy -- THESE are the tests we'll use, THIS antibody test to let people work THOSE jobs, THIS kind of contact tracing.

I'm not quite sure if the states are hoping the federal government will come out with some unifying strategy/process/materials/procedures at some point, or what, but it sure ain't happening.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#669

Post by stcredzero »

jackcosgrove wrote: post #631
stcredzero wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is anecdotal and it might come across as bitter and tonedeaf as someone who is not in a STEM job and cant see the bigger picture very well. Im a diesel engine tech who repairs those big trucks carrying food and shit tickets to grocery stores. the fact that ANY market is completely detached from whats actually happening to Americans is frustrating This is something I see from coverage of "lock-down protesters." T…

It's even worse because the lockdowns hurt young people economically for the sake of the health of the elderly. The lockdowns are financed by debt which will be paid by the young. The young are also probably much poorer and browner than the elderly.

Right! Also, the lockdowns benefit well-heeled professionals who can work from home while not straining their safety nets. On the other hand, lots of working class and lower middle class people are very strained!

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#670

Post by maxsilver »

ChrisRR wrote: post #386
nimbius wrote: post #98

This is anecdotal and it might come across as bitter and tonedeaf as someone who is not in a STEM job and cant see the bigger picture very well. Im a diesel engine tech who repairs those big trucks carrying food and shit tickets to grocery stores. the fact that ANY market is completely detached from whats actually happening to Americans is frustrating. My job just cut benefits and hours but we're "essential." Remembe…

It still surprises me that America has such a culture of leasing cars they can't afford for hundreds, if not thousands of dollars a month. Here in the UK if you said you were going to buy a car, most people would instantly assume you mean second hand. There's not much of a culture of buying or leasing new cars here, and even less of leasing cars that you really can't afford (outside of petrolheads anyway)

> Here in the UK if you said you were going to buy a car, most people would instantly assume you mean second hand.

This is true in America as well. I think wealthy Americans forget that regular Americans often live their whole lives while never owning a "new" car.

(This is even true of car loans in the US -- the majority of those are for used vehicles).

Post reply on HN