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U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

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Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#31

I understand that the economy and the market are different but I'm so confused. The S&P is up ~12% this month, despite massive unemployment, a shrinking economy, and serious long-term questions about the outlook. Is most of the 12% just market speculation that the virus issue will pass without a long-term earnings hit?

Take a look at the Russell 2000 for a wider gauge of where money is flowing. Small businesses are still getting trashed

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#32
post #21

I understand that the economy and the market are different but I'm so confused. The S&P is up ~12% this month, despite massive unemployment, a shrinking economy, and serious long-term questions about the outlook. Is most of the 12% just market speculation that the virus issue will pass without a long-term earnings hit?

Fed is printing money and it needs to go somewhere. They are buying everyone’s distressed assets including dumping money into junk bond etfs.

Stock market is going up because it's going up.

Wait 'til the music starts and there's a scramble for seats.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#33
One year ago, if you had asked me what would happen if we printed $4T+ (that's 20% of GDP for perspective) out of thin air and injected it into the economy, I would've told you massive hyperinflation and immediate collapse of the dollar.

Instead, we see the US Dollar Index strengthening over the last 6 months [1]. The dominance of the United States as a global hegemonic superpower truly cannot be overstated; I'm in awe. We can literally print trillions of dollars worth of fiat and people around the world will give us real assets for it. Not only that, they will give us real assets at better rates than before we ramped up the printing presses. Makes me feel pretty good about the future, to be completely honest.

[1] https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/index/dxy

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#34
Nah, it signals exactly nothing.

If there was no Coronavirus, then maybe.

With Coronavirus it is just as likely that the economy is going to rebound once the worst of the virus passes. People stopped buying stuff but rest assured, they will make up for it when they finally can.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#35

Thats 4.8% annualized. The real figure is 1.17% for 3 months. It's quite impressively small really, considering everyone is sitting at home, and many aren't working at all.

Let's assume that 2 weeks of Q1 were significantly impacted. Let's make the very poor assumption that it scales linearly. That would imply that in Q2, we'll have about a -7% GDP, -28% annualized.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#37

I understand that the economy and the market are different but I'm so confused. The S&P is up ~12% this month, despite massive unemployment, a shrinking economy, and serious long-term questions about the outlook. Is most of the 12% just market speculation that the virus issue will pass without a long-term earnings hit?

Remember that in late March and early April, it was completely unknown when the economy would restart, with many people floating the idea of maintaining lockdowns for 18 months. It makes sense that the market is up from that low now that people in many areas are getting back to work.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#38

I understand that the economy and the market are different but I'm so confused. The S&P is up ~12% this month, despite massive unemployment, a shrinking economy, and serious long-term questions about the outlook. Is most of the 12% just market speculation that the virus issue will pass without a long-term earnings hit?

It seems to me that the stock market or GDP are very bad measures for the economy. Maybe we should look more at average purchasing power or something like that which actually has real meaning for the regular citizen. The stock market seems to have turned into its own system that’s detached from the experience of most citizens.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#39
I wish I could say I disagree, but to be perfectly honest, I was fully expecting a recession last year. As someone may have already mentioned though, between FED basically keeping the market afloat, stimulus working its way through the economy and dollar still riding as a safe haven, it is not that surprising that US economy did not crash, while a good chunk of population is at home and out of commission.

The thing that worries me is that by attempting to prolong it as long as we are, we are basically setting up a stage for a greater depression. We already saw 'sell everything' panic in March.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#40

I understand that the economy and the market are different but I'm so confused. The S&P is up ~12% this month, despite massive unemployment, a shrinking economy, and serious long-term questions about the outlook. Is most of the 12% just market speculation that the virus issue will pass without a long-term earnings hit?

The market is denominated in dollars. If the dollar gets less valuable due to the government printing cash (or buying bonds or issuing loans they are expected to later write off), then things denominated in dollars increase, even if the real value remains unchanged. It's hard to tell if the dollar is weakening, because most other currencies are in the exact same position.

Yes in fact the only thing you wouldn't want to hold is dollars; you'd want to hold things that will earn more dollars in the future (an inflation hedge), such as equities. Then you'd only care about FX rates (to the extent you are purchasing internationally), and I don't see any indication the FX futures market is moving against the dollar.
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