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The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

sfmayor.org

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Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#611
post #551
post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stated goal is to decay to 1 infection per million residents so that robust contact tracing works. Back of the envelope math puts that between 6 and 18 months of continued progress of the health order to get it to this level. (60 or so in Santa Clara County ICU == ~6000 infections. ICU occupancy decaying by 40% per month; 0.6^15 months * 6000 = ~3 )

so you think 6-18 months of SIP is going to work? I think that could lead us to a dire situation. > robust contact tracing works Doesn't that rely on the individual opting in/using it? I have a feeling most people don't want the government tracing their every move (even though it already is geographically).

> so you think 6-18 months of SIP is going to work? I think that could lead us to a dire situation.

No, I don't. I think it's implausible. But this is what those in local public health are calling for. Granted, there's the IMHE model, which somehow fantastically thinks the virus will mostly be gone in Santa Clara County in mid-May, but it's shown very little agreement with the actual data and is nearly as bad as saying the Easter Bunny will take the virus away.

> Doesn't that rely on the individual opting in/using it? I have a feeling most people don't want the government tracing their every move (even though it already is geographically).

No, if you get the infection count low enough, you can investigate each individual case to death like Singapore has been doing it (though cases are growing beyond Singapore's ability to maintain this).

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#612
post #590

I hate how the idea of reopening has split down political party lines. This is definitely not the time for partisanship. Now that Republicans have come out as pro-reopening, San Francisco will be the last city to reopen in the country. 0 COVID-19 infections will be too many.

The new order includes several approved low risk activities and transparent indicators that will be used to gauge safety to further reopen. Is there something about this you don’t feel is backed by science?

The original order was never based on any sound science to begin with. That doesn't necessarily mean it was a bad policy. But it was a faith based policy, not evidence based.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#613
post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you don't have to pay for cobra until you need it though, so you could get out spending $0, iirc.

There is a grace period before you have to start paying, and the dates should be on the letter you receive when you leave your employer. The grace period does not last forever, and when it's almost up, you need to pay several months at once to get coverage. (another comment suggests these rules might vary somewhat by state, and I'm sure that is also possible)

For ACA, policies, the grace period is forever. Job loss is a "life event" that lets you jump in any time, not just an arbitrary open enrollment window.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#614

I'm lucky enough to have remote work. And I'm sure many HNers have a nice buffer of savings from their tech jobs to weather the storm or are getting paid time off. But can anyone share what it's like to not be in either of these situations? How are your rent lords handling things? I live abroad in a cheap country so I can handle zero income, but I wouldn't be able to last long if rent was $2000+/mo instead of the Yet…

Yea I am wondering the same thing. I am REALLY lucky to have saved a lot and be in a good living situation where I can quarantine comfortably. But what the hell are people doing who were paycheck to paycheck? I would not blame them if they had to start stealing from supermarkets

They’re complaining loudly, begging to go back to work. And they’re being shamed for it by people who are in a position like yours.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#615
post #330

I'm lucky enough to have remote work. And I'm sure many HNers have a nice buffer of savings from their tech jobs to weather the storm or are getting paid time off. But can anyone share what it's like to not be in either of these situations? How are your rent lords handling things? I live abroad in a cheap country so I can handle zero income, but I wouldn't be able to last long if rent was $2000+/mo instead of the Yet…

My friend who works at the airport in the Galapagos (GPS) was telling me that no one has gotten paid since the tourism stopped. Luckily she can work on farm, but many can't. The local animal shelter there is now out of food, and the dogs will starve if they don't somehow raise money in the next 3 days or so (@patitasgalapaguenas on instagram, you can donate here [0]). The US is struggling in many ways, but I can't he…

I'm gonna be that guy... given that people are starving, isn't immoral to ask that money be donated to keep shelter dogs alive?

Surely they should just be put to sleep, no?

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#616
post #590

I hate how the idea of reopening has split down political party lines. This is definitely not the time for partisanship. Now that Republicans have come out as pro-reopening, San Francisco will be the last city to reopen in the country. 0 COVID-19 infections will be too many.

The new order includes several approved low risk activities and transparent indicators that will be used to gauge safety to further reopen. Is there something about this you don’t feel is backed by science?

At the end of the day it is going to be a judgement call by someone - hopefully informed by scientific fact - but ‘science’ doesn’t say when to reopen, just provides the data and context help make a decision.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#617
post #273
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a class divide, unfortunately. The people who are getting hit hardest are the people who were already getting hit hardest. Most of those don't frequent the same internet forums we do.

Some politicians have pointed out that some lower income people are getting paid more to _not_ work now, due to unemployment benefits and the CARES Act. I'm not saying that I agree with those politicians. It seems like the concern for lower income people runs the gamut from them not being able to make it to them living high on the benefits hog. Edit: It's not just politicians-- similar stories are on CNBC: https://ww…

Yup, my sister said she is making two times as much here in MO. She was blown away. Honestly I thought it was a mistake in her favor until I read this.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea I am wondering the same thing. I am REALLY lucky to have saved a lot and be in a good living situation where I can quarantine comfortably. But what the hell are people doing who were paycheck to paycheck? I would not blame them if they had to start stealing from supermarkets

CA unemployment is near $1000 a week with the federal stimulus.

It’s naive to think this works for everyone. Independent contractors are getting screwed. Small businesses are getting screwed. Sure, there are some solutions on paper, but for a lot of people they have not come to fruition yet.

Edit: People downvoting me are proving my point about being naive. I’m giving my input as someone who is in a much different position than most of the privileged commenters here. Feel free to ignore it, it just grows my disdain for the stereotypical tech worker, a well-paid sheep that’s never faced any kind of hardship yet thinks he knows what’s best for people who have.

Not everyone fits into a perfect little box of “job” or “no job.” I personally am an independent contractor who’s been burning through (minimal) savings while building a startup that doesn’t exist yet. I’m eligible for the $1200 check, but I have no idea where it is and the IRS website is a blackhole. I haven’t tried for the PPP loan yet but it’s not helpful.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#619

I'm lucky enough to have remote work. And I'm sure many HNers have a nice buffer of savings from their tech jobs to weather the storm or are getting paid time off. But can anyone share what it's like to not be in either of these situations? How are your rent lords handling things? I live abroad in a cheap country so I can handle zero income, but I wouldn't be able to last long if rent was $2000+/mo instead of the Yet…

I have two commercial leases. Neither landlord is offering a break. Construction is stopped due to government mandate. There is no bailout from the state due to this intervention. There is a high liklihood of mass layoffs and potential bankruptcy. I'm past the point of annoyance or despair. I've gotten used to the fact that not only do governments do whatever they want, but people like authoritarian action and don't…

Can you lay out the chain of events you imagine (or have been told ) will occur for refusing to pay your leases, or at least pay in full? I’m genuinely curious what would happen if you say, “sorry, not paying.” beyond an eviction. It seems like if eviction is the only consequence, it may be worth considering a partial payment as I’d imagine the prospects of replacing you as a tenant are near zero in the short term. (Obviously I’ve never signed a commercial lease so please excuse my lack of knowledge on the terms)

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flowers aren't consumed for survival, i.e. "essential". I'm not sure how intervals of time has any effect on that.

Shouldn’t the metric incorporate the risk each activity entails? A good example is gardeners. Gardeners work alone or in teams of two, can obey social distancing, and generally don’t even talk to their clients on a regular basis. What is the threat here? What is so magical about the word essential? On the flip side large alcohol stores like Bevmo can stay open and serve hundreds of customers a day because they sell c…

1) Liquor stores are kept open because a (surprisingly high) percentage of the population are severe alcoholics and sudden withdrawal can kill them.

2) No public health professional has time to list and quantify all of the routine processes of every profession to create a complex matrix of risk. And 99% of the public would ignore that matrix if it was created and published. The simpler and more effective public health communication is "stay home."

3) Your hypothetical pair of gardeners might not see their clients that day, but they still get up, get breakfast, get supplies at the store, fuel up their truck and equipment at the gas station, drop off a check at the bank after work, etc., and they can interact with other people at each of those stops.

4) Articles about young people that die from the virus are not trying to hide "simple math that the risk is low." They are trying to convince young people that the risk is non-zero, to prevent them from spreading the virus while pre- or asymptomatic.

5) "Children dying from a virus" and "children going hungry because they can't get two free meals a day" are BOTH public policy issues. Dooming an extra hundred? thousand? ten thousand? people to severe illness and death to avoid having to deliver emergency rations and meals to a million people is a false dilemma. In my medium-sized US city, schools and other community agencies have been distributing meals and rations for seven weeks now and we have zero cases of death by starvation.

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