>In addition, you only get the bank’s confirmation of the payment 3-5 days (in the US) to 3 weeks (in some EU countries) after the payment attempt. I find it surprising that it's been 15 years since the commercialization of the Internet and (near) instant global data communication and it still takes banks 3-5 days to confirm payment (e.g., the time it takes to send a physical letter, coast-to-coast, via the USPS). Th…
Why Payments Are Hard, Even For Apple And Google
21–30 of 42 posts
Re: Why Payments Are Hard, Even For Apple And Google
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's the most gorgeous eight-track player ever made. They have enough money to shift, so for their sake, I hope they shift soon. For my sake I hope they don't.
I'll bite ... what is it about their reader / product line that makes it equivalent to a "gorgeous eight-track"? I've thought the reader looked a bit fragile (and wouldn't hold up to heavy use), but that doesn't make it obsolete right out of the gate.
Personally I think my company's technology does make Square's obsolete right out of the gate. We just face a much different adoption hurdle because we replace the entire system from end to end.
Re: Why Payments Are Hard, Even For Apple And Google
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
Note: Mix of facts and speculation, take with grain of salt. Banks (and credit card companies) make a lot of money on the float, so it's against their natural incentives unless they can win more business as a result. I think they probably could, but it would take a coordinated roll-out of new products or acquisition/integration with an external company... which is difficult to do because of regulation. So you're in a…
I was a NACHA member for the better part of the past year so I've talked to many of the bankers, consultants and government-types involved with running the ACH network about this. It's not about the float. It's about the up-front investment in the standard, which millions of bank customers have already implemented. It's also about the risk of allowing instantaneous funds transfers; the current delay allows for at lea…
Money already seems to be moved somewhat instantly, but only ever out of my accounts.
Re: Why Payments Are Hard, Even For Apple And Google
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, I lived in Canada for three years, and had the impression that the electronic transfer capabilities of their banks surpassed what's available in the U.S. Perhaps this is due (in part) to the fragmentation of the banking system in the U.S.? In Canada there are essentially five banks that dominate the banking industry - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_(banks) . There is also more regulatory control of ba…
I remember payments in NZ being <1 min -- possibly seconds -- 10-15 years ago, as there was a single clearing-house for all EFT, nationally.
Re: Why Payments Are Hard, Even For Apple And Google
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm going to (respectfully) take issue with your claim here, though I would happy to be proven wrong. I am clearly an early adopter (as pretty much 95% of people on HN likely are) when it comes to technology, particularly online technology. I routinely use paypal (+bump), buy almost everything online, haven't touched a paper book or newspaper in over two years. I even have a SquareUp dongle and use it from time to ti…
PayPal spent $300M learning how to deal with fraud[0]. This money is in terms of investment in development and outright monetary losses. The problem is you can't get a large number of users while you are also being taken apart by fraud. When dealing with payments, finding users is not your hardest problem. [0] Source: One of the investors in my company was involved fairly early in PayPal. We've had many conversations…
Re: Why Payments Are Hard, Even For Apple And Google
#26>In addition, you only get the bank’s confirmation of the payment 3-5 days (in the US) to 3 weeks (in some EU countries) after the payment attempt. I find it surprising that it's been 15 years since the commercialization of the Internet and (near) instant global data communication and it still takes banks 3-5 days to confirm payment (e.g., the time it takes to send a physical letter, coast-to-coast, via the USPS). Th…
I am not a banking programmer, so take with grain of salt. Perhaps there's some evil super-complex-and-unavoidable issue at play, but I doubt it.
Re: Why Payments Are Hard, Even For Apple And Google
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was a NACHA member for the better part of the past year so I've talked to many of the bankers, consultants and government-types involved with running the ACH network about this. It's not about the float. It's about the up-front investment in the standard, which millions of bank customers have already implemented. It's also about the risk of allowing instantaneous funds transfers; the current delay allows for at lea…
What's cute is that much of the time when I pay for something it's instantly charged to my card - my account balance reflects the deducted money, whether it's been actually moved out to the other account or not. But if a merchant gives me a credit/refund, it can take several days for that to show up - some places will say "two billing cycles" (although they have no idea how long my billing cycle is - I presume they m…
Re: Why Payments Are Hard, Even For Apple And Google
#28Re: Why Payments Are Hard, Even For Apple And Google
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was a NACHA member for the better part of the past year so I've talked to many of the bankers, consultants and government-types involved with running the ACH network about this. It's not about the float. It's about the up-front investment in the standard, which millions of bank customers have already implemented. It's also about the risk of allowing instantaneous funds transfers; the current delay allows for at lea…
What's cute is that much of the time when I pay for something it's instantly charged to my card - my account balance reflects the deducted money, whether it's been actually moved out to the other account or not. But if a merchant gives me a credit/refund, it can take several days for that to show up - some places will say "two billing cycles" (although they have no idea how long my billing cycle is - I presume they m…
Re: Why Payments Are Hard, Even For Apple And Google
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
PayPal spent $300M learning how to deal with fraud[0]. This money is in terms of investment in development and outright monetary losses. The problem is you can't get a large number of users while you are also being taken apart by fraud. When dealing with payments, finding users is not your hardest problem. [0] Source: One of the investors in my company was involved fairly early in PayPal. We've had many conversations…
And all of this because the credit card model is fundamentally flawed. When buying something it's like sending the seller a trivially copyable key to your vault and letting him get the money he wants.
E-gold used username/password pairs and seemed to be making pretty good progress towards solving the 'using someone else's account' kind of fraud.
The kind of fraud that killed e-gold (and I think, the harder kind of fraud to solve) is "he sold me a defective whatsit" or "after I paid him, he never sent my thingamajig"
If you don't solve that harder problem, you quickly become known as the payment method of choice for criminals.