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Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

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Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#391

Post by champagneben »

missosoup wrote: post #292
bagacrap wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you realize when someone dies in a car accident that they may have otherwise lived another 40 or 80 years, whereas with covid they probably had two months.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-news-12-year-old-gi... Tell this to her parents. The distribution of case fatalities from SARS-CoV-2 is still very much up for debate. But it sure as hell isn't as simple as 'they were about to die anyway'. Also something that mainstream news coverage mostly ignores is that 1: about 20% of all patients regardless of age require supplementary oxygen to survive the infection and…

>The distribution of case fatalities from SARS-CoV-2 is still very much up for debate.

Really? It seems to follow the same pattern everywhere.

>1: about 20% of all patients regardless of age require supplementary oxygen to survive the infection and it'll be straight up the worst experience of their life.

You mean all patients in bad enough state to end up in the hospital? 20% of all patients who have contracted SARS-CoV-2?

>And 2: those who develop pneumonia (again no corr to age) run a pretty high risk of suffering permanent lung damage.

A little googling, and everything seems to corroborate that it is in fact correlated with age and given that smoking seems to be big risk factor, even if age in and of itself wouldn't be, we'd see it a lot more in older people.

Pretending like massive lockdowns aren't having a very negative effect on drug abuse, mental health, domestic violence, and increasingly looking like food production as well, would be disingenuous. Now, maybe all of those negatives are outweighed by whatever would happen if we opened up, but surely it must be okay to at least have the discussion.

This might be a bit provocative, but I'm genuinely curious. Let's assume that suicide hotlines are filled up due to mental health problems from being forced to stay inside. If someone is advocating for a lockdown, should they not have the right to call?

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#392

Post by kingkawn »

otterley wrote: post #323
mehrdadn wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many states are suspending unlawful detainer and eviction actions until the crisis is over and people can get back to work So how does that work? Instead of right now, they'll get evicted and become homeless as soon as things open up, because they've been piling up rent with no income in the meantime? Would you find that comforting?

Why do you assume that would be the outcome? That is the cruelest, most pessimistic prediction that one could make. Come on, have a little faith in common sense and decency.

Because we still call them Land Lords

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#393

Post by roenxi »

echelon wrote: post #390
roenxi wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I don't know if what is going on really makes sense or not, and I'm pretty happy to wait 6 months before I decide myself who should and shouldn't have done what - apart from the obvious stuff like the US CDC banning private companies from selling test kits has to be the stupidest crisis response I've seen in my lifetime. The reaction is going to look stupid in hindsight whatever happens, people were forced to mak…

> the US CDC banning private companies from selling test kits has to be the stupidest crisis response I've seen in my lifetime. What happens when the kits are faulty or non-experts interpret the data? Lots of folks will think they're safe and go home to visit at-risk elders. > All that said 'the hospitals are being overwhelmed' isn't a good reason to shut down most of the economy. The hospitals are overwhelmed, so th…

> What happens when the kits are faulty or non-experts interpret the data? Lots of folks will think they're safe and go home to visit at-risk elders.

That is basically what the CDC did. Having one organisation in a position where a totally ordinary and probably routine failure will kill tens of thousands of people, or worse, is stupid. It isn't like government officials are the only people in the world who care about stopping a blossoming pandemic; the law shouldn't pretend otherwise.

Better to ban tests if there is something wrong with them than preemptivly screw up the response.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#394

Post by dmarchand90 »

markbnj wrote: post #369
sneak wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's been a month. We can absolutely make it through a few months if we have to, while they do their work. You and I can. Many of my friends have missed a rent or car payment, and may soon miss another. Most people cannot work from home.

> You and I can. Many of my friends have missed a rent or car payment, and may soon miss another. Most people cannot work from home. Sure, and I'm very aware of my privilege in that sense. If people have the choice of getting the disease or missing rent payments that is a social failing we should all be ashamed of. I also don't mean to ignore the global perspective. The U.S. is materially wealthy enough that we could…

In Canada everyone out of work gets a $2000 check almost right away and basically no questions asked. And we're definitely less wealthy than the US (even per capita). So very unclear to me why the US can't do the same

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#395

Post by growlist »

duchenne wrote: post #155

I guess it is easy to dismiss the message from ordinary people, since they do not express themselves as well as the professional speakers we are used to listen to. If instead of saying "I want a haircut.", they would say like Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." would they be taken more seriously? In the movie versio…

Here's a radical idea: allow people that want to ignore lockdown to do so, in exchange for refusal of anything but palliative care if they get sick with Coronavirus.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#396

Post by grandmczeb »

dmarchand90 wrote: post #394
markbnj wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You and I can. Many of my friends have missed a rent or car payment, and may soon miss another. Most people cannot work from home. Sure, and I'm very aware of my privilege in that sense. If people have the choice of getting the disease or missing rent payments that is a social failing we should all be ashamed of. I also don't mean to ignore the global perspective. The U.S. is materially wealthy enough that we could…

In Canada everyone out of work gets a $2000 check almost right away and basically no questions asked. And we're definitely less wealthy than the US (even per capita). So very unclear to me why the US can't do the same

Unemployment right now is $1050 a week here in California ($450 state + $600 federal). Should be noted $2000 CAD is ~$1400 USD also.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#397

Post by pbourke »

meheleventyone wrote: post #376
mehrdadn wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many states are suspending unlawful detainer and eviction actions until the crisis is over and people can get back to work So how does that work? Instead of right now, they'll get evicted and become homeless as soon as things open up, because they've been piling up rent with no income in the meantime? Would you find that comforting?

If everything just starts up with rent due and evictions happening to a significant population you just have a second wave of recession and a collapse of the rental market. I’d assume most people, particularly landlords and local government would want to avoid that.

> I’d assume most people, particularly landlords and local government would want to avoid that.

This seems like a “prisoner’s dilemma” situation. It’s rational for an individual landlord to evict a delinquent tenant and seek a new one. However, if everyone does this the entire market collapses. It’s better for everyone if the landlord takes a short term haircut to preserve the market.

Since cooperation is expected to break down between individuals, the government must step in to prevent collapse.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#398

Post by j4kp07 »

TomMckenny wrote: post #147
downerending wrote: post #24

It's worth noting that there is a lot of discussion in serious circles (including here on HN) about the balance between too much and not enough with respect to quarantine, lockdown, etc., both in terms of where we are now and what we should do in the near future. I see little reason to doubt that all involved are trying to minimize general death and misery, even if they may disagree radically about how to do that. It…

>that all involved are trying to minimize general death and misery Unless the anti-quarantine events are organized by a hostile power. And this seems likely since they are insanely harmfully, arose suddenly and with widespread and great organization and have a lot of precedent. [1][2][3] And especially since it's already been explicitly shown for at least some of the domains connected to the protests.[4] [1] https://…

Seriously? Russia again? And the first article is 2 years old? I honestly thought people such as yourself would go in hiding by now.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#399

Post by pjc50 »

sneak wrote: post #309
markbnj wrote: post #305

I usually stay out of the political/topical threads on HN but this is personal to me. From my point of view few if any of us commenting here are knowledgeable enough to connect all the disparate data points we keep snatching at and synthesize them into conclusions that are likely to be correct. The people who can do that are working on it, and generally too busy at the moment to post on forums or give interviews. The…

> It's been a month. We can absolutely make it through a few months if we have to, while they do their work. You and I can. Many of my friends have missed a rent or car payment, and may soon miss another. Most people cannot work from home.

How many fractional-people are willing to kill or injure for that payment, which should (but isn't, because this is America) be bailed out by the government responsible for the quarantine?

This is the statistical morality question that we're very bad at dealing with. Here, move this trolley switch lever. There's a 1/100 chance that doing so kills somebody. No, you can't tell whether it will, or even whether it did afterwards. Here's your cheque.

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