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Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

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Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#291

Post by ogre_magi »

SerLava wrote: post #182
thelean12 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're using quite inflammatory language here that's distracting from your points. Calling the US a failed state, saying we're demanding workers be buried in the ground, etc. If you want to discuss actual policy, then do so. I'm not interested in following platitudes.

Inflammatory language is appropriate to describe an ongoing attempt to end the lives of millions of people. It's necessary to point out that we live in a failed state because some of the solutions being presented are assuming some kind of capability which we have not come close to demonstrating. It looks like we're going to have to kill quite a few poor people is fundamentally inflammatory, even when you act like you…

Wait why are their lives more valuable than others?

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#292

Post by missosoup »

bagacrap wrote: post #287
camgunz wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People should be able to take a calculated risk. That is not at all what we're talking about here. People should not be able to take a calculated risk with the lives of others . Let me tell you why it's not like driving: the NHTSA reports 102 car fatalities a day in 2016. NYC just got under 500 COVID deaths a day. One city. 5x the fatalities. Compared to a country of 300 million people. This is, by far , the most o…

you realize when someone dies in a car accident that they may have otherwise lived another 40 or 80 years, whereas with covid they probably had two months.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-news-12-year-old-gi...

Tell this to her parents.

The distribution of case fatalities from SARS-CoV-2 is still very much up for debate. But it sure as hell isn't as simple as 'they were about to die anyway'.

Also something that mainstream news coverage mostly ignores is that 1: about 20% of all patients regardless of age require supplementary oxygen to survive the infection and it'll be straight up the worst experience of their life. And 2: those who develop pneumonia (again no corr to age) run a pretty high risk of suffering permanent lung damage.

If you want to inflict this on yourself, go ahead. But you absolutely don't have the right to take actions that put others at risk of these outcomes. You don't even have the right to ask for a hospital bed if you end up being one of those 20% that needs oxygen if you recklessly infected yourself. That hospital bed belongs to an actual victim.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#293

Post by nikofeyn »

chrisco255 wrote: post #3

These are Americans exercising their constitutional rights to freedom of speech and assembly. Whether you agree with the protestors or not is irrelevant. Your rights are impacted, too, by this arbitrary platform bias. This cannot stand for long. We have to move away from centralized monopolies on the web.

you know, i'm pretty tired of people hiding behind "constitutional rights" in support of domestic terrorism.

i'm the least fan of corporations, but you know what also can't stand for long? a president executing authoritarian power and promoting domestic terrorism that then "true americans" lap up and execute.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#294

Post by renewiltord »

kiba wrote: post #247
alyx wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you read his post. You are endangering others‘ lives each time you drive. And yet you’re not inline at the DMV surrendering your license, why? Seasonal sickness also isn’t new. My coworker gave me the flu and I gave it to my grandmother. Who’s at fault there?

You're endangering peoples' lives by driving yes, but it's more like a few persons at most and huge inconvenience for a whole lot of people. COVID-19 could end up sickening tons of individuals at once and contributing much more death.

All the comments in response are clear then that it is a question of degree. At x deaths caused, we stop permitting this. That means the discussion is only moved to determining what that threshold x is. And so the right thing is to move past that to find what the cost-benefit analysis is.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#295

Post by esoterica »

chrisco255 wrote: post #3

These are Americans exercising their constitutional rights to freedom of speech and assembly. Whether you agree with the protestors or not is irrelevant. Your rights are impacted, too, by this arbitrary platform bias. This cannot stand for long. We have to move away from centralized monopolies on the web.

Facebook's constitutional right to free speech and assembly means they have the right to decide what speech they want to host and what speech they want to censor. The first amendment just means that the government can't throw you in prison for your speech, it doesn't mean you can force private organizations to provide a platform for your speech.

You are ironically and hypocritically violating their free speech rights by demanding that the government force them to host speech against their will. It's equivalent to the government forcing you to put up a yard sign for a candidate you don't support.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#296

Post by ebg13 »

modzu wrote: post #288
bagacrap wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you realize when someone dies in a car accident that they may have otherwise lived another 40 or 80 years, whereas with covid they probably had two months.

so it's a hard topic nobody wants to think about genuinely but isn't there truth to it? the nursigng homes that are being ravaged the most -- people are there for end of life care. by definition. they are generally under a policy of do not recussitate. thats very different than any hn readers experience (nobody here is commenting as a nursing home patient). this is not to say their lives dont matter but the context d…

> but isn't there truth to it?

NO. THERE IS NOT. Less than 50% of COVID deaths are over 75 years old. That means that more than 50% are under 75. A full quarter of deaths are below 64. These are not people dying anyway. These are not people in nursing homes. These are people like you.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#297

Post by esoterica »

whiddershins wrote: post #174
SamWhited wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This entire comment is a strawman. This is not the same as "arbitrary platform bias". This is not Facebook saying "we have a certain political view and we talked to the government and they agreed so no other views are acceptable". This is them stopping stupid people from killing a lot of other people. Also, your rights aren't affected. This is Facebook telling stupid people to shut up and stop spreading fud that coul…

People always think they are serving the greater good when they curtail someone’s rights. It’s not generally people sitting around maliciously wanting to oppress other people. It’s more often someone who thinks they are doing good, and that “right” is just in the way.

You don't have the right to post on Facebook unless they want you to. They paid for the servers, not you. If you want to organize a protest, find another host or buy your own servers.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#298

Post by Barrin92 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #267
Barrin92 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." would they be taken more seriously? Just to point out that quote is a textbook example of historical revisionism. Benjamin Franklin wrote this to the Penn family who governed the state of the same name on behalf of the general assembly. The Penn family wanted to make a one time p…

I think I have heard at least four different versions of the alleged history of the Franklin quote over the years (one of which being that it is apocryphal and he never actually said it), all from people willing to tie themselves into a knot to avoid the words having their ordinary plain meaning. It's a rhetorical device, not a history book. A lot of other people have said the same thing over the years, but if you at…

>It's a rhetorical device, not a history book. A lot of other people have said the same thing over the years, but if you attribute it to them instead, the words are still the same and so is the meaning intended to be conveyed by the people using the quote now.

By putting the quote into the context of the founding fathers the precise meaning is to imbue it with the idea that a sort of anti-governmental stance is Ur-American, no explanation or examination necessary, slogans will suffice.

It's not a minor thing to use historical figures and turn their words on their heads, and it's done very deliberately. To pick up OPs point, if an ordinary person were to argue that shops should reopen during a pandemic because they need a haircut they would be dismissed, and they ought to be because that's a terrible argument.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#299

Post by alyx »

coliveira wrote: post #205
alyx wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you read his post. You are endangering others‘ lives each time you drive. And yet you’re not inline at the DMV surrendering your license, why? Seasonal sickness also isn’t new. My coworker gave me the flu and I gave it to my grandmother. Who’s at fault there?

False equivalence. Car accidents are not transmitting at viral rates. Cars are not infecting other cars even when they are working perfectly well. Seasonal flu is not killing 2% of those infected, and even then we take necessary measures to avoid the common flu.

When you say "viral rates" please cite your model.

Here is the latest out of California,

https://pressroom.usc.edu/preliminary-results-of-usc-la-coun...

Making the effective death rate like 0.1% - 0.3%, if confirmed.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#300

Post by gorgoiler »

perl4ever wrote: post #175
SerLava wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not reasonable. You can't quarantine vulnerable people completely. If everyone gets it, every bag of groceries is going to be covered in COVID and an enormous number of quarantined people will die. You can't tell who's going to die from it. You can't have everyone getting sick at once. The death rate will go up tremendously if nobody can get treatment when they have treatable symptoms. This is what "flattening t…

"every bag of groceries is going to be covered in COVID" Just as a random factoid, somewhere I was just reading that someone was doing testing of surfaces in a hospital, and on average they found maybe 80% contaminated with the virus, but the floor of the pharmacy was 100% even though no patients had been in there...

Asking in good faith (I believe you!) if you could dig out your source, I would find that interesting to read as well.
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