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Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

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Re: Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

#41

Post by baybal2 »

rdtsc wrote: post #27
lilott8 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I apply a bit of hyperbole here, but I'm convinced that "national security" is a monotonic function that will eventually encompass everything in the federal government.

And a large part of it to cover up embarrassing details. I think it was in the discussions related to one of the embassy cables that I found this concept of 3rd order facts that leads to things being classified. It goes something like this. Say US is supporting some brutal dictator somewhere. The fact that he is evil is the main fact (1st order). People in that country and all over the world know it. That's the 2nd o…

> And a large part of it to cover up embarrassing details.

Yes, but it is more than that. Way more.

Chinese ask me why in the world did Americans threw themselves on Saudis when they attacked them.

Chinese don't understand that. They cannot comprehend it at all. It breaks their mind. Chinese there think there must be some completely bizarre, terrible secret that is the reason for that.

I give them one popular explanation:

Imagine, some serious guy in the suit comes to completely shocked people after 9.11 and tells there is a "completely bizarre, terrible secret" behind this mess, and "this is why you trust me on this, and we must go help Saudis with Saddam."

Then years pass, US is in its 10th year of Iraq war. Everybody has since forgot Saudis, and can't care more why this has started when they have to finish this war at all costs. The guy serious guy in the suit keeps shouting "This is all Saddam who did all this! I have a proof, but is a state secret, just trust me!"

Imagine now somebody coming out and telling everybody: "there was no terrible secret" to begin with, and you had no reason to listen to that serious guy in the suit for all that 19 years long war.

Re: Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

#42

Post by int_19h »

spamizbad wrote: post #24
dvtrn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, damage to whom? The American people or individuals with compromised interests? I am unconvinced it's not the latter and that's a shame akin to the reality that we have to find of squaring with that it took a comedian pleading with tears in his eyes to convince Congress to do the right thing and even authorize funds for first responder's families. Next question: More damaging than 9/11? Does that preclude the lo…

This information would probably make it politically impossible to maintain peaceful, diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia. That’s probably why.

If that is the case, then some action carried out by Saudi Arabia already makes it ethically impossible to maintain peaceful, diplomatic relations.

Re: Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

#43

Post by int_19h »

wahern wrote: post #10
resters wrote: post #4

The only possible explanation is that Barr is trying to hide wrongdoing or negligence on the part of the US government. Any information relevant to national security (such as names, etc.) could easily be redacted.

The other possible explanation is that it implicates high-ranking Saudi officials, which would make it politically problematic to maintain the existing diplomatic and security relationship. For example, while under seal it can't be used to civilly sue those officials, and it permits the DoJ to avoid prosecutions it might be politically forced to pursue. Such civil and criminal suits would disrupt the existing state o…

"But the administration insisted in court filings that even its justification for that secrecy needed to remain secret. Four statements to the court by FBI and Justice Department officials were filed under seal so they could not be seen by the public. An additional five, including one from the CIA, were shared only with the judge and cannot be read even by the plaintiffs’ lawyers."

Re: Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

#44

Post by pnw_hazor »

app4soft wrote: post #40
pnw_hazor wrote: post #34

A link to the case file or Barr's filed declaration and memo would be nice. edit-to-add: Case No.: 1:03-md-01570 In Re: Terrorist Attacks on September 11, 2001 Can't find free access to Barr's recent memo filed.

> Case No.: 1:03-md-01570 Just found three PDFs with the title "Case 1:03-md-01570-GBD-FM" .[0,1,2] [0] https://www.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/4caseyorderja... [1] https://www.law.upenn.edu/live/files/5886-30462015-09-29opin... [2] https://www.scribd.com/document/101651118/Judge-Orders-6B-in...

Those are old. Barr's recent declaration was filed 04/13/20

You can find docket information that shows when documents were filed but all the ones I see make you pay to see the documents.

Doc No.: 6142 "DECLARATION of Attorney General William P. Barr in Support re: [6136] MOTION for Protective Order. Document filed by FBI."

Re: Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

#45

Post by mirimir »

dillonmckay wrote: post #29
spamizbad wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This information would probably make it politically impossible to maintain peaceful, diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia. That’s probably why.

Why does the US need to maintain peaceful, diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia?

The Saudis no longer control enough oil to explain it.

But maybe it's all connected to Epstein, or rather to the group that he ostensibly headed. That would account for the links to both Israel and Saudi Arabia. And there's the possibly that they're blackmailing many senior politicians from the US and who knows how many other countries.[0]

0) https://medium.com/@dylanhoward/russia-israel-and-saudi-arab...

Re: Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

#46

Post by AndrewBissell »

lpah4all wrote: post #39
kencausey wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no problem with the statement. But as a HackerNews comment it is far too reductionist. At the very least, in my opinion, it should have been accompanied by at least mentioning supporting information if not actual citations.

Josh Marshall and his team at TalkingPointsMemo have been doing a fantastic job for these past four years documenting Trump's AG turnstile that finally landed him the cover-up artist Barr, whose lawyering for government criminals goes back to the Reagan administration. And that man is good at what he does, for he has no shame; it's team-first and damn the Constitution. And at some point, it no longer became reduction…

Barr actually got his start even before the Reagan admin. In the 70s he helped the CIA fight the various measures that came out of the Church Commission to impose some measure of accountability on the intelligence community.

Re: Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

#47

Post by pan69 »

baybal2 wrote: post #35
dvtrn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, damage to whom? The American people or individuals with compromised interests? I am unconvinced it's not the latter and that's a shame akin to the reality that we have to find of squaring with that it took a comedian pleading with tears in his eyes to convince Congress to do the right thing and even authorize funds for first responder's families. Next question: More damaging than 9/11? Does that preclude the lo…

There happen to be one major Saudi company that happen to be a privileged accessory to their monarch... https://s.france24.com/media/display/aa00e3a4-0eb0-11e9-818f... Basically yes, USA has went to absolutely unexplainable, completely bizarre extent to shield Saudis from the fallout, and even took out their biggest enemy in the region for them. A document rendering multiple US administrations complete insert expleti…

But that's what OP is asking/saying right? If the information was made public it would mean that heads would role (proably even prosecutions) but the nation would be just fine (other than that lots of people might have to get to terms that their government has been lying to them for decades).

Re: Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

#48

Post by dvtrn »

pan69 wrote: post #47
baybal2 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There happen to be one major Saudi company that happen to be a privileged accessory to their monarch... https://s.france24.com/media/display/aa00e3a4-0eb0-11e9-818f... Basically yes, USA has went to absolutely unexplainable, completely bizarre extent to shield Saudis from the fallout, and even took out their biggest enemy in the region for them. A document rendering multiple US administrations complete insert expleti…

But that's what OP is asking/saying right? If the information was made public it would mean that heads would role (proably even prosecutions) but the nation would be just fine (other than that lots of people might have to get to terms that their government has been lying to them for decades).

I read their response as more of a "yes, and" versus a "no but".

Re: Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

#49

Post by throwaway829 »

shiftpgdn wrote: post #17
wahern wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other possible explanation is that it implicates high-ranking Saudi officials, which would make it politically problematic to maintain the existing diplomatic and security relationship. For example, while under seal it can't be used to civilly sue those officials, and it permits the DoJ to avoid prosecutions it might be politically forced to pursue. Such civil and criminal suits would disrupt the existing state o…

I'll be run out of town on a rail for this due to the Alex Jones association but what about the dancing Israelis? The limited amount of government documents released do genuinely seem to point to Israeli Mossad having some fore-knowledge of the attack.

Over a 100+ Israel's were deported after 9/11, including the dancing Israelis. This news report, that came out shortly after 9/11, covered it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnWSNI7rKf0 Haven't seen any reporting on it since.

Re: Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

#50

Post by DrScump »

lpah4all wrote: post #39
kencausey wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no problem with the statement. But as a HackerNews comment it is far too reductionist. At the very least, in my opinion, it should have been accompanied by at least mentioning supporting information if not actual citations.

Josh Marshall and his team at TalkingPointsMemo have been doing a fantastic job for these past four years documenting Trump's AG turnstile that finally landed him the cover-up artist Barr, whose lawyering for government criminals goes back to the Reagan administration. And that man is good at what he does, for he has no shame; it's team-first and damn the Constitution. And at some point, it no longer became reduction…

  Trump's AG turnstile
None of the three Attorneys General of the Obama administration chose to release this content either, and ProPublica didn't complain.
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