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Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

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Re: Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

#21

Post by fiblye »

Threeve303 wrote: post #15
dvtrn wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course he is, and frankly I wouldn’t put it past this or even most administrations to do the same thing. Zero accountability. It’s disgusting. Yes. Downvote this. For calling out the issue of accountability for what it is on this topic: disgusting. I dare someone to defend it convincingly. Please someone defend this.

While I agree with you, I'll play devils advocate: The information in the documents is so bad, the damage it would cause would be worse than 9/11 itself. What other logical reason is there for keeping it secret for this long?

If there’s any damaging or damning info, the people should hear it and decide how to respond. If the truth has been told to us already, then nothing could be that much more damaging. If we were deceived from the beginning, then that has already resulted in massive amounts of damage.

The only people who would lose are those within political organizations.

Re: Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

#22

Post by [deleted] »

shiftpgdn wrote: post #17
wahern wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other possible explanation is that it implicates high-ranking Saudi officials, which would make it politically problematic to maintain the existing diplomatic and security relationship. For example, while under seal it can't be used to civilly sue those officials, and it permits the DoJ to avoid prosecutions it might be politically forced to pursue. Such civil and criminal suits would disrupt the existing state o…

I'll be run out of town on a rail for this due to the Alex Jones association but what about the dancing Israelis? The limited amount of government documents released do genuinely seem to point to Israeli Mossad having some fore-knowledge of the attack.

[deleted]

Re: Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

#23

Post by mirimir »

shiftpgdn wrote: post #17
wahern wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other possible explanation is that it implicates high-ranking Saudi officials, which would make it politically problematic to maintain the existing diplomatic and security relationship. For example, while under seal it can't be used to civilly sue those officials, and it permits the DoJ to avoid prosecutions it might be politically forced to pursue. Such civil and criminal suits would disrupt the existing state o…

I'll be run out of town on a rail for this due to the Alex Jones association but what about the dancing Israelis? The limited amount of government documents released do genuinely seem to point to Israeli Mossad having some fore-knowledge of the attack.

Yes, they were tailing the Saudis through the US. That was reported by Salon, within days after the attacks. But maybe they were helping the NSA and FBI. And perhaps someone made the call that it wasn't important enough to risk blowing some other operation.

Re: Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

#24

Post by spamizbad »

dvtrn wrote: post #16
Threeve303 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with you, I'll play devils advocate: The information in the documents is so bad, the damage it would cause would be worse than 9/11 itself. What other logical reason is there for keeping it secret for this long?

Okay, damage to whom? The American people or individuals with compromised interests? I am unconvinced it's not the latter and that's a shame akin to the reality that we have to find of squaring with that it took a comedian pleading with tears in his eyes to convince Congress to do the right thing and even authorize funds for first responder's families. Next question: More damaging than 9/11? Does that preclude the lo…

This information would probably make it politically impossible to maintain peaceful, diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia. That’s probably why.

Re: Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

#25

Post by catalogia »

spamizbad wrote: post #24
dvtrn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, damage to whom? The American people or individuals with compromised interests? I am unconvinced it's not the latter and that's a shame akin to the reality that we have to find of squaring with that it took a comedian pleading with tears in his eyes to convince Congress to do the right thing and even authorize funds for first responder's families. Next question: More damaging than 9/11? Does that preclude the lo…

This information would probably make it politically impossible to maintain peaceful, diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia. That’s probably why.

All the more reason for it to be made public. We all deserve to know the truth.

Re: Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

#26

Post by dvtrn »

spamizbad wrote: post #24
dvtrn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, damage to whom? The American people or individuals with compromised interests? I am unconvinced it's not the latter and that's a shame akin to the reality that we have to find of squaring with that it took a comedian pleading with tears in his eyes to convince Congress to do the right thing and even authorize funds for first responder's families. Next question: More damaging than 9/11? Does that preclude the lo…

This information would probably make it politically impossible to maintain peaceful, diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia. That’s probably why.

If peace and diplomacy are the goals, conducting it in the dark terrifies me as to what steps the interested parties aim to use in 'getting there' or the questionable trades and concessions they make outside of the spotlight.

I mean let’s turn this on its head: if peace and diplomacy are the goals, what do they have to hide? That’s a pretty universal outcome that I can’t imagine many people having a problem pursuing.

Can we stop treating the devil like an indigent defendant now and look this diseased horse square in the mouth? This is kabooky-simulacra-governance disguised as security policy.

Re: Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

#27

Post by rdtsc »

lilott8 wrote: post #14
willart4food wrote: post #3

> Barr says he cannot even explain why the material must stay secret without putting national security at risk.

I apply a bit of hyperbole here, but I'm convinced that "national security" is a monotonic function that will eventually encompass everything in the federal government.

And a large part of it to cover up embarrassing details.

I think it was in the discussions related to one of the embassy cables that I found this concept of 3rd order facts that leads to things being classified. It goes something like this. Say US is supporting some brutal dictator somewhere. The fact that he is evil is the main fact (1st order). People in that country and all over the world know it. That's the 2nd order. However the knowledge that the US govt knows (3rd) order is classified. The reasoning is because then the US govt might have to explain its inaction in regard to all the brutalities inflicting by that ruler.

Re: Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

#28

Post by akudha »

lilott8 wrote: post #14
willart4food wrote: post #3

> Barr says he cannot even explain why the material must stay secret without putting national security at risk.

I apply a bit of hyperbole here, but I'm convinced that "national security" is a monotonic function that will eventually encompass everything in the federal government.

National Security, but what about the children?

Those two excuses are the all purpose, catch all ones that work every time.

Re: Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

#29

Post by dillonmckay »

spamizbad wrote: post #24
dvtrn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, damage to whom? The American people or individuals with compromised interests? I am unconvinced it's not the latter and that's a shame akin to the reality that we have to find of squaring with that it took a comedian pleading with tears in his eyes to convince Congress to do the right thing and even authorize funds for first responder's families. Next question: More damaging than 9/11? Does that preclude the lo…

This information would probably make it politically impossible to maintain peaceful, diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia. That’s probably why.

Why does the US need to maintain peaceful, diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia?

Re: Attorney General Barr Refuses to Release 9/11 Documents to Victims' Families

#30

Post by onetimemanytime »

For a reason or another, Saudi Arabia means a lot to the Trump admin and generally speaking, to all US administrations. Someone was chopped up and ...you know the story.

So everyone in our admins closed both eyes and their three ears when the Saudis did this and that, because the Saudis are smart enough to be useful to us in very, very important things. So we protect them from small stuff, and maybe the Saudis buy this protection with concessions to us in certain things

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