Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money • Hacker News Board

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#241

Post by SuoDuanDao » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 5:14 PM UTC

non-entity wrote: post #176

thisisnico wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I Live in the Border city of Windsor to Detroit. We have a University that had been hailed for its engineering program. What I'm hearing from students/employers (big 3) is that the entire program is mostly mathematics, they have no usable engineering skills to begin work in the field because of minimal labs, and methods. Almost no CAD work/design control systems etc. They're so far behind the curve it's like they ign…

> More community college engineering graduates are getting jobs at the big 3 due to actually obtaining skills needed to do the job through labs and education that's on par with today's engineering. How does this work in Canada in regards to professional licensing? In the US, it my understanding that getting an engineering license requires an accredited program and that majority of a reddit programs are 4 year bachelo…

In Canada, you need a B.Eng if you're graduating today, or an equivalent from a foreign university+1 year local practice. There are engineers practicing in Canada that got grandfathered in on different academic systems, but there's not much leeway in the system these days.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#242

Post by pnw_hazor » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 6:41 PM UTC

ridv wrote: post #233

pnw_hazor wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brother in law is a CS professor at a US state university. Failing foreign students is highly discouraged even ones caught cheating. He has learned to not do it anymore.

Former TA here. I saw this happen several times with foreign students and domestic students. Maybe I could shed a little light on why this is this the case in most universities (mine was a public one in a large state for what it's worth). Failing someone on the grounds of cheating at the university where I attended was a huge time investment. If the student contested their failing grade, the professor/lecturer who wa…

My daughter has been TAing for undergrad intro-to-programming courses at her university (she is ugrad too). Her heart was broken more than once when she discovered how blatantly people she otherwise liked a lot would cheat.

Initially it posed quite a dilemma for her since she had the power to give zeros for cheating, we determined the best course of action is to forward the evidence to the professor and forget about it.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#243

Post by tuankiet65 » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 2:10 AM UTC

thawaway1837 wrote: post #108

tuankiet65 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OPT jobs (capped at 1 year) Minor nitpick, you get two years of extension if you graduate with a STEM degree.

Only if your employer has already applied for your H1B. It’s 1 and a half year, and the reason it exists is (a) most students graduate and start jobs after the current year’s H1B process is already over, and (b) if you don’t get your employment visa in the first round (since it’s capped at 60k), then they want to give you a second chance.

> It’s 1 and a half year [1] says that the STEM OPT extension is 24 months on top of the 12 month OPT.

> Only if your employer has already applied for your H1B. Doesn't seem like so to me, the requirements for the extension are (from [1]): >> Have a degree in an eligible STEM field from a Student and Exchange Visitor Program-certified school that is accredited when the student submits their STEM OPT extension application to USCIS. >> Pursue their STEM OPT extension through an employer that is enrolled in USCIS's E-Verify employment eligibility verification program. >> Select a STEM OPT employer that provides the student with formal training and learning objectives. Work a minimum of 20 hours per week per employer.

[1]: https://studyinthestates.dhs.gov/stem-opt-extension-overview

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#244

Post by JDulin » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 5:31 PM UTC

ggm wrote: post #33

JDulin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I love that we teach people. > I hate what it has done to the system overall. There are plenty of fine universities the scions of CCP members can attend in China that don't result in the long-term institutional destruction of your nation's educational system. "I love that we teach people" has all the meaninglessness of most feelings of charity, except the price you pay is losing a healthy, stable, focused universit…

Oh don't be tiresome. They're from India, Korea, Malaysia, Thailand, all over. We used to have a strategic engagement called the Columbo plan where we taught them on the condition they returned home to do service for their state. I liked that model. Not everything is about china and the CCP. The problem is the venality of the university system now. It's a business.

Ok. Replace the CCP and China in my comment with the other countries you mentioned. You get the exact same mechanism of degradation of your universities, you're just still trying to feel better about it by pointing out that your charity is towards other, poorer, less authoritarian countries than China.

The thing policymakers do not understand about globalism is that it takes advantage of existing institutions, necrotizing them in the process, by infecting them with incentives they were never designed to handle. Where once you had a closed system that was working well, you now have a system exposed to graft, grift, and entropy from agents without accountability for how they take advantage of it. So, these agents can find ways to leverage an institutions' own interests against the interests of the people it was originally designed to serve. Much the same way European imperialists could exploit the internal fissures of colonized peoples. Sand in the gears of a clock.

This is what happened to manufacturing in the United States. Once the American governance class became culturally and financially loyal to Wall Street, there was nothing stopping developing nations & capital from convincing them to move the entire American industrial base abroad in pursuit of higher returns, no matter the irreversible social damage it caused at home.

The Charity Consolation Prize is exactly what those businessmen and policymakers pat themselves on the back with too when they look at the destruction wrought on the American middle class ("Look at home many Indian people we've lifted out of poverty!"). Which would be great! If they were the leaders of India!

So you are right that it's driven by greed now, but it's not just "something that happens." The university system in the U.S. and Australia did not just wake up one day and decide to become addicted to Chinese money. Someone gave them a needle full of the stuff to try. It's an exploit in the system that can be closed. It's a choice.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#245

Post by koheripbal » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 12:59 PM UTC

paxys wrote: post #229

koheripbal wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not accurate. If you are physically here on a student visa and you land a job with a large corporate that is willing to sponsor you (which is common for graduates with tech degrees or from ivy league schools), then you do _not_ need to enter the lottery for your visa. Many many fellow engineering students went down this road with me - all are US citizens now.

Nope, that is incorrect. You can start working on an OPT work permit (which will have a duration of 12 months with a potential 24 month extension for certain fields), but after that the company WILL have to apply for a H-1B through the lottery.

The corporate sponsored H1-Bs are not a lottery - they are first come - first serve up to the quota for the year.

It's almost guaranteed that you'll get it if you get your application in early in the year.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#246

Post by aschatten » Tue, Apr 14, 2020, 7:53 PM UTC

HPsquared wrote: post #55

aschatten wrote: post #30

Not just foreign. In the US even many university prefed out of state students, but will never admit to it.

The invisible hand at work.

Yeah. It's even less about tuition but more about dorm cost. If a student is very local, they can even stay with their family or are more likely to find rent sooner. Out-of-state students tend to pay colleges for housing, at least for the first year or two.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#247

Post by aschatten » Tue, Apr 14, 2020, 7:55 PM UTC

non-entity wrote: post #94

aschatten wrote: post #30

Not just foreign. In the US even many university prefed out of state students, but will never admit to it.

My opinion on university education has flip flopped overtime with me leading toward it being a massive scam at the moment, but this time for reasons like what you mention. Case in point: I found the perfect program for me: online CS bachelors, from a respected state school, very affordable. However, I cant even be considered a resident of the state I live and work in for several years and would be forced to pay out o…

It's surprising to me they do it with online education. With traditional study, they prefer out-of-state, because oos students are more likely to pay colleges for housing. With online it does not make a difference though.