Earlier quoted context omitted.
> no longer seem to advertise their primary mission as education, but as providing the “college experience.” This was already really noticeable when I enrolled in undergrad 12 years ago at a large public university. I think part of it has been driven by student demand for more parental oversight, but I also think the marketing is what got so many students to take out debt in the first place. So many of my undergrad c…
> So many of my undergrad classmates (perhaps even a slim majority) believed that undergrad was going to be the best 4 years of their lives and they had to make the most of them, which I personally found completely insane. For people who don't neccessarily like working (i.e. for most people), school and college are usually the best times of lifes. It's just that it's hard to appreciate that when you have no point of…
Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money
181–190 of 247 posts
Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money
#182Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
> no longer seem to advertise their primary mission as education, but as providing the “college experience.” This was already really noticeable when I enrolled in undergrad 12 years ago at a large public university. I think part of it has been driven by student demand for more parental oversight, but I also think the marketing is what got so many students to take out debt in the first place. So many of my undergrad c…
I think it is the best four years of life for many (maybe most?) Americans at least. But I think that speaks to exactly what people are saying in this thread. It's not about education anymore, it's evolved into a four-year time-of-your-life experience that through a fluke of history gets supported by guaranteed loans.
I think that is the most disheartening thing of all that its become such an accepted and prevalent narrative; from Junior year of High School to to my Junior year of undergrad I had my own business(es), and was involved in professional motorsports (University was always my 'Plan B' if it all went wrong) in some capacity.
My Life was way more fun (albeit stressful and exhausting) outside of University, and almost never within it; I was there to do one thing and one thing only: graduate, and network with professors for lab positions and training to expedite my career as a Clinical Laboratory Scientist. Nothing else mattered to me that took place at school, it was a drain on what I deemed my 'real life,' so I knew I was an anomaly going into this system as Freshman enrollment and orientation had made it clear to me what I had gotten into.
I went to one of the more 'renown' party schools in the US for my upper divisions so I often had embarrassing encounters when turning down persistent invitations to events and parties at school, some possibly even being useful networking events--I mean if you have ever been to an official Red Bull party at an Industry event with an open bar, catering and entertainment and insiders to network and make deals was always going to make some kegger on campus seem monotonous.
Especially if you're there while under 21, as it leaves an impression to say the least.
But, I did notice how prevalent the Health Sciences, which were often really impacted majors at that school, were geared toward admitting non-Californian students, and would bend backwards for International students.
During the good times of the bubble era, I saw it for what it was and didn't mind really it: I was quite open to the cosmopolitan student body.
But it became crystallized how gravely insidious it had become as we started to head into the recession and especially within it as catering to International students was a priority; limited class and lab sections were a common occurrence as the CSU/UC system got hit hard with budget cuts and furloughs, strikes etc...
This all meant that placating to the International students was an even higher priority as so much funding depended on doing so, as keeping them content and within the system was far more profitable than having local students (Californian students) graduate on time who pay 1/7 of the tuition and probably don't participate as much on 'campus life' as they have family and friends outside of it.
I saw time and again as departments were pulling class/lab seats but were filled with predominately International Chinese students in the upper divisions as we had to petition to enter them, and exclusive elective courses: this isn't racist profiling just an observation, my great-grandmother is from Guangzhou, just so its clear.
I still remember my Organic Chemistry lecture that had 100+ seats available, and we were all sitting on the floor, isles, and their were students out the doors trying to petition for a seat. It's embarrassing to recall what it felt like I remember someone from administration coming irate at the fire hazard that it created and her solution being: encouraging those that had 'flexibility in their schedule' to go off campus to the CU 30 miles away and would be admitted (at an undisclosed a higher fee) as the first bailout in 2007 was being proposed that fall semester.
All of this left such a horribly bitter taste in my mouth, I saw the same thing happen with the Korean students at the University where I started where my family still lived and it was a crazy transition. Every time I went to visit there were more Mercedes, BMW, Audi and as the Korean luxury brands got more prevalent Genesis and big Hyundai cars all over that campus as I rode my bike around.
CU Boulder looks like that from the outside, and I'm told from a friend that recently graduated with a BS in Genetics it was the same; he's a local but his freshman year dorm roommate was some Saudi prince's son. I tuned out to the stories he'd say, but the it was practically the same.
So, with that in mind its not surprise to me to see articles like this being common place and finally confirming it, its a big part of what made me lose all value in academia, despite knowing several amazing professors and post docs within. Its realized it was such a rigged system that I had to put scruples and often times dignity off the table to accomplish my goals in a reasonable time frame; this led to a very interesting conversations with an International student in Lichtenstein that led to a collaborative study network I created among my peers.
This article with the USC admissions is also worth a read, as the Admission's officer was profiting from Chinese student admission fraud:
https://laist.com/2020/04/02/usc-cheating-ex-admissions-offi...
Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because the thing that tech hasn’t solved yet is misaligned incentives. No amount of advanced technology will counteract an organization or industry thats incentivized to be inefficient. Especially in the case of universities which are largely “non profit”, as are the majority of hospitals. Without shareholders to push for increased efficiency and price competition, the leadership has little reason to care about that…
How did they function for centuries before, when shareholders were not demanding increased efficiency? College in the USA is expensive because of the credit available. That is how prices are set.
They only served the rich elite
Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
I had the same attitude as you, but many of the wealthy, Chinese-raised students at my local (prestigious, private) university can't speak basic English. The school then has to choose to either fail the student or ignore their cheating. With a $250k incentive to choose the former, that's what they choose.
Has this been documented anywhere, by the way? You'd think that there would be more reporting around this topic.
Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's weird, most schools offer one flat online cost, regardless of residency. That schools is woefully out of touch. Who is it?
University of Florida's online program for undergrad. It's like $129/credit hour in-state which is incredibly attractive but jumps to $552 out of state which is still cheaper than getting an on-campus degree as an out-of-state student, but still more than I want to pay as someone who's guaranteed to get minuscule aid.
Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money
#187At least in the US, rich foreign students shelling out big sums for US universities is one of the few legitimate paths towards immigration. You're paying 150-250k worth of access to an F1, CPT, OPT, a more streamlined path into the H-1B world, followed by permanent residency. You get to work for a US employer for a few years without having to bother with the lottery, while also applying to an H-1B at the same time. I…
Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money
#188This is a problem in the UK too. The independent school (aka private school) sector has seen fees double or triple over the last 10-20 years. This is largely driven by rich foreign students, primarily Chinese, sending their kids to these schools. I don't particularly regret these bastions of class division destroying their reputation for money, but there are a lot of knock on effects. Independent schools used to be o…
Given enough time it could go the other way - the schools' increased income from foreign students would subsidise more scholarships for local students. I'm under the impression they are nonprofit, so the money has to go somewhere?
It's interesting comparing hospitals with universities, since both are supposedly non-profit but make obscene amounts of money. In the past 15-20 years, both universities and hospitals have increased their administrative staff and the percentage of revenue that goes towards paying administrators, and invest the increased revenue into new fancy buildings and a "better experience", treating their students/patients as customers instead of people who need education/healthcare. Universities have been relying more heavily on adjunct professors, who are paid very little compared to full time professors. The money they make is not being reinvested into education (or better healthcare, in the case of hospitals).
Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money
#189What we need is to strengthen this by granting green cards to those who get advanced degrees in key fields.
Yeah, overspending is a big problem (cut Administrative overhead and highly paid deans, etc!), but foreign students are a sign of a healthy and competitive higher education system.
Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
The only thing I can say I learned from Engineering school is math. 4 years of my career completely changed my mind about what Engineering is. I didn't know I would be solving problems. Good that they teach math, but there's a giant disconnect between academia and industry.
In some ways, there is 'good disconnect' if the disconnect is that the academia merely informs your thinking, not your immediate actions. It shows that you learned the fundamentals in an insular environment that doesn't muddle them. If there is full disconnect, that is rough though