Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#151

Post by TeMPOraL » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:41 PM UTC

zepto wrote: post #116

TeMPOraL wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This heroism stuff is just bullshit so we can shame people who refuse to die. Every medical worker who goes into the fray to help save people in this pandemic deserves the highest praise. Every medical worker who doesn't on the grounds that it's extremely unsafe deserves understanding - after all, as the EMS mantra goes, the safety of the rescuer takes priority over the rescue; a sick or dead medical practitioner c…

I agree with most of what you wrote here, but I wish people would stop listing “praise” as the primary thing that healthcare workers deserve. Why not say they deserve money?

Fair, and I absolutely agree with that.

Unfortunately, it would have to be mandated by fiat for it to happen, because market economy tends to reward people in proportion to the inverse of the value they provide to the society at large.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#152

Post by throw_m239339 » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:41 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #138

throw_m239339 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's surprising because one would think that in XXI century, people understood that global problems require global coordination; competition of selfish actors fails spectacularly in such cases. More globalists isn't going to solve globalism. American politicians answer to their constituants, not the China or India. If it looks like policitians didn't first and foremost prioritize the need of their own citizens who…

> The irony, it's the very definition of economic liberalism and what led to the current paradigm, globalism. It doesn't mean it's the only path to a global economy. > The pandemic is only global because trade is global and people can easily travel between countries. The pandemic wouldn't be anywhere near as severe if there was a coordinated global response. > the solution is to take back western industrial force fro…

> The pandemic wouldn't be anywhere near as severe if there was a coordinated global response.

You mean if China didn't lie at the beginning of the pandemic, that's with these people you want to associate?

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#153

Post by zapdrive » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:41 PM UTC

billfruit wrote: post #125

atonse wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it should be. A nation's government should ABSOLUTELY put its citizens over everything else. Not sure what you would have them do instead? What is happening is unfair to some, but the individual governments are doing exactly what they should be doing, valuing their people above all else.

Some countries behave even more strangely. India barred entry of its own citizens into India. One KLM flight was turned back from Delhi because it had Indian citizens on board.

The flight was allowed to land 2 days later. The earlier decision was taken in mistake.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#154

Post by FooBarWidget » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:41 PM UTC

not_exactly__ wrote: post #41

FooBarWidget wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. Allow me to disagree with this one. I see people questioning China's motives on helping other countries, but in my opinion this is a baseless and overly cynical view of things, not truth. People want to buy int…

> “ but in my opinion this is a baseless and overly cynical view of things, not truth.” It’s neither baseless or overly cynical if you’ve ever lived in China or have just spent enough time observing the CCP’s actions.

I was born in China. I have family there. My wife is Chinese. I disagree.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#155

Post by lliamander » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:42 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #27

atonse wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it should be. A nation's government should ABSOLUTELY put its citizens over everything else. Not sure what you would have them do instead? What is happening is unfair to some, but the individual governments are doing exactly what they should be doing, valuing their people above all else.

That's true, but at the same time, it shows the need for a global government to coordinate responses to global problems like this pandemic.

A global government would have led to a more uniform response, but arguably that's exactly what we don't want in a crisis like this.

Each nation was able to react differently, and those different responses have provided us the closest thing we have to controlled experiments. Those experiments have allowed us to understand the spread of this disease better.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#156

Post by xamuel » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:42 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #67

stronglikedan wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that, in XXI century, we're realizing that the human race is not yet ready for globalization. Heck, we still can't even assimilate into respective cultures properly. People emigrate from places with problems, then insist the place they immigrated to should be like the place they emigrated from.

As much as it pains me, I think you might be right. Perhaps we're not ready yet. Then again, who's ready the first time they do something? This pandemic has made obvious a lot of places where our attempt at globalization doesn't work. I hope our societies will learn from it and do better next time.

How would it work if we got globalism "right"? What if instead of a virus, it was an asteroid which instantly destroyed all the factories in Country X, so there's no way for Country X to send supplies overseas even if they wanted to? If we want to be safe from events like that, we better not outsource any critical production to Country X. But if we don't outsource any critical production to any foreign countries, what's even left of globalism then?

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#157

Post by sct202 » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:43 PM UTC

philliphaydon wrote: post #17

hkmurakami wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally enjoyed the hypocrisy of China initially requesting Nations to not "overreact" and close borders to its travelers (mid February), then proceeding to do exactly this towards these same nations (mid March) when things became worse overseas.

During Swine Flu outbreak in 2009 china closed it's borders to Mexico, but turns around and says it's unfair when people close their borders to china. Then proceeded to close their borders AGAIN. facepalm

No one has to listen to the CCP. The CCP acts offended by everything.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#158

Post by GordonS » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:44 PM UTC

antigirl wrote: post #95

FooBarWidget wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will also have to disagree on that one. I was born in China, I now live in Europe, and "CCP doesn't give a shit about people" is a bad western stereotype. Of course, define "caring". Does any other government, including democratic ones, truly care about people? Debatable. But what I'm saying is that CCP is not the mass-murdering villain that Hacker News makes it out to be. What about censorship, etc? Yes bad things…

Agree but not the good hero you make them out to be either. Does any other nation have Muslim concentration camps. Invasive tracking? And extreme sensorships measures?

You could argue that Guantanamo Bay is a Muslim concentration camp, and that the rendition program was (likely is) the most organised torture program since the Nazis.

You could further argue that the overreaching mass surveillance outed by Snowden is invasive tracking.

In a way, you could also argue that all the boogeyman-style news in the west is a form of censorship too - it keeps the masses focused on their hatred of communists, Russians, Chinese, Islam (or whoever), so they don't focus so much on real issues at home.

And all this is just in direct response to your comment - it doesn't even touch on racism (very much alive in the US in particular), wars started on false pretenses and/or for profit, the CIA being able to lie to congress, refusing to not use cluster munitions, etc.

I think sometimes we're so focused on the perceived evils of other nations, that we lose sight of the highly dubious things are own nations are involved in. Perhaps that's the point...

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#159

Post by FooBarWidget » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:44 PM UTC

philliphaydon wrote: post #84

not_exactly__ wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But this time, reporting to WHO took ~5 days. It was discovered by dr Zhang Jixian on Dec 26, then reported to WHO on Dec 31. False. It took much longer than five days. The WHO was indeed notified on the 31st but the Chinese government organs knew about this long before. First CCTV report that I recall was around the 15th. First confirmed cases were early December. There’s even US intel reports dating back to Novem…

We heard about it just before Xmas time in Singapore. Basically that there was another SARS outbreak in china. It was definitely known before the 26th.

Well doesn't the fact that they mention "SARS" confirm that they didn't know it was a new virus?

COVID-19 is not SARS. It's less lethal but far more contagious. SARS would not have been such a big issue because it doesn't spread as easily.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#160

Post by TeMPOraL » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:44 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #90

TeMPOraL wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's interesting to me that you find this surprising or view it as bad behavior. It's not surprising in the sense that it fits the definition of a "nation state". It's surprising because one would think that in XXI century, people understood that global problems require global coordination; competition of selfish actors fails spectacularly in such cases.

The reason that the flight attendants tell you to put on your own mask before helping others is so you CAN help others, otherwise everybody dies. Wether it cleanly fits into your political ideology or not, The United States is the most powerful country in the world, and in the coming years as less powerful countries work to stamp this out, we are going to be doing a lot to help them. As the US goes, so goes the world…

> Wether it cleanly fits into your political ideology or not, The United States is the most powerful country in the world

It's not a matter of my ideology. I recognize that the US was the most powerful country in the world before the pandemic, but looking at the news about the US response, I have a feeling it will no longer be once the coronavirus is finally dealt with. Then again, maybe I'm just biased by the disproportionate amount of headlines the US is taking in international media.