Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#111

Post by vezycash » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:24 PM UTC

AtomicOrbital wrote: post #60

hkmurakami wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally enjoyed the hypocrisy of China initially requesting Nations to not "overreact" and close borders to its travelers (mid February), then proceeding to do exactly this towards these same nations (mid March) when things became worse overseas.

when china shutdown domestic movement into/out of Wuhan they kept open international movement into/out of Wuhan ... at the same time neighbor countries with china tried to block cross boarder movement yet china forced those trade routes to stay open well after Wuhan had entered lockdown - pure evil

>when china shutdown domestic movement into/out of Wuhan they kept open international movement into/out of Wuhan

I'd like someone else to confirm this because I've not heard about this before now.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#112

Post by henearkr » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:25 PM UTC

numpad0 wrote: post #94

henearkr wrote: post #10

I'm surprised that Japan's government is feeling this as a priority right now... There are no problems for goods importation between Japan and China now, and as in China the pandemics has been largely reduced, there should not be in the near future neither. PS: Japan and more precisely Tokyo is on the brink to imitate the human tragedy of Italy and US, so maybe they could vote some different budgets for now... (like,…

From my personal Japanese perspective the issue is clear: the situation isn’t tangibly horrible, so the higher up politicians aren’t amused. They’re feeling underwhelmed, betrayed even, that the experts they think who represent the virus are still demanding more out of the government.

Yes, exactly. How can we teach them "to fscking look 10 days from now on the graph!"... It feels like they are used to gambling thinking "oh look, the new cases are slightly reduced today, so there is maybe no problem!". A failure to understand simple modeling and statistics.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#113

Post by pretendscholar » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:25 PM UTC

lgleason wrote: post #104

hahamrfunnyguy wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Many of the jobs that left Japan and the United States in the 80's and 90's are not coming back - they've already been replaced by robots. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Cashiers, accountants and drivers are all being replaced by robots and automated systems. These jobs are going away and aren't going to be replaced by a comparable entry-level job. This automation is picking up pace now and will onl…

If that was truly the case it would be cheaper to have manufacturing locally, vs shipping things across the world from China.

Its difficult because japan is not a resource region country. They don't want to reshore production because its costly to source all of the materials they need.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#114

Post by catalogia » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:26 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #64

throw4547 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are some good stories too, especially the sacrifice of the healthcare workers What is good about that? They are terrified to come to work. This heroism stuff is just bullshit so we can shame people who refuse to die. After crisis is over, there will be no financial compensation (overtimes, hazardous environment, no protective equipment).

> This heroism stuff is just bullshit so we can shame people who refuse to die. Every medical worker who goes into the fray to help save people in this pandemic deserves the highest praise. Every medical worker who doesn't on the grounds that it's extremely unsafe deserves understanding - after all, as the EMS mantra goes, the safety of the rescuer takes priority over the rescue; a sick or dead medical practitioner c…

> after all, as the EMS mantra goes, the safety of the rescuer takes priority over the rescue

Years back when I was trained as a lifeguard, this point was repeatedly emphasized. The first thing you do when you see somebody who needs help is to review the situation for any environmental hazard that could harm you too. It makes no sense to run up to somebody laying on the ground only to slip on the same puddle and crack your skull too. That would only make the situation worse.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#115

Post by FooBarWidget » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:26 PM UTC

AtomicOrbital wrote: post #60

hkmurakami wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally enjoyed the hypocrisy of China initially requesting Nations to not "overreact" and close borders to its travelers (mid February), then proceeding to do exactly this towards these same nations (mid March) when things became worse overseas.

when china shutdown domestic movement into/out of Wuhan they kept open international movement into/out of Wuhan ... at the same time neighbor countries with china tried to block cross boarder movement yet china forced those trade routes to stay open well after Wuhan had entered lockdown - pure evil

> when china shutdown domestic movement into/out of Wuhan they kept open international movement into/out of Wuhan

Evidence for this claim? I believe they closed all movement, including international flights.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#116

Post by zepto » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:27 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #64

throw4547 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are some good stories too, especially the sacrifice of the healthcare workers What is good about that? They are terrified to come to work. This heroism stuff is just bullshit so we can shame people who refuse to die. After crisis is over, there will be no financial compensation (overtimes, hazardous environment, no protective equipment).

> This heroism stuff is just bullshit so we can shame people who refuse to die. Every medical worker who goes into the fray to help save people in this pandemic deserves the highest praise. Every medical worker who doesn't on the grounds that it's extremely unsafe deserves understanding - after all, as the EMS mantra goes, the safety of the rescuer takes priority over the rescue; a sick or dead medical practitioner c…

I agree with most of what you wrote here, but I wish people would stop listing “praise” as the primary thing that healthcare workers deserve. Why not say they deserve money?

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#117

Post by TeMPOraL » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:27 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #37

jennyyang wrote: post #4

At the very least, medical supplies and drugs manufacturing will get pulled back into each country. The 3M spat between Canada and the US makes it abundantly clear that in a time of true crisis, you can't even trust your closest friends when something terrifying happens to the world like this pandemic. Whether it means all manufacturing will move away from China or if it means that they will spread it globally, is an…

To be honest, I don't understand what efficiency gains this kind of globalization was supposed to bring anyways... A factory in China is just as efficient as a factory in Spain or USA. Obviously, cheaper workers work for less, but that's not exactly efficiency , (1) more a question of fairness, (2) can be done domestically (low-cost immigrant workers) and (3) there's plenty of cheap workers worldwide, not just in Chi…

> To be honest, I don't understand what efficiency gains this kind of globalization was supposed to bring anyways... A factory in China is just as efficient as a factory in Spain or USA.

A factory in China is just as efficient as a factory in Spain. But if China has most of the factories, and supporting industries, and supporting education, etc. it suddenly becomes more efficient. But then if China decides it doesn't like you, you're screwed. So it's the concentration of skill you mention, but also concentration of all kinds of relevant infrastructure.

As for cheaper workers - it's a temporary "efficiency" in financial terms, in forms of price arbitrage. Over time it evaporates. Even as the 2019 was coming to an end, China was already too expensive for many industries - being the world's factory enabled them to enrich their citizens, and suddenly there was a middle class that demanded humane working conditions and employee protection and what not. So suddenly poorer countries became of interest for future manufacturing...

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#118

Post by lapnitnelav » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:27 PM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #9

Actually this pandemic has shown some true colors of many nations. 1) US trying to unsuccessfully hoard supplies, issues with the German testing company 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. 3) European countries are in-fighting for supplies. Switzer…

I am particularly saddened by how Europe has handled the situation.

Not that I can blame the EU because I'm pretty sure it couldn't have done (as in imposed) anything there and it clearly highlights the deficiencies of being somewhere in the middle.

It was a litmus test and it's pretty obvious that we need to take it further rather than competing with each other.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#119

Post by systemvoltage » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:28 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #77

ubermon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. I am curious what will be considered not fake and genuine support? Damned if they and damned if they don’t. AFAIK Dutch issued a article clarify the mistake they made which nobody seems to care. I don’t think any…

> So why it is not in China best interests to offer genuine support when they can? It's definitely in their interest, because in terms of realpolitik, this is their golden opportunity one-up the US on the world stage, possibly even making Europe more aligned with them than with the States.

All democratic nations should get together and invest in manufacturing. If democracy falls, the treaty would asymetrically punish those that give up rights and freedom of their people.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#120

Post by mytailorisrich » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 4:28 PM UTC

vezycash wrote: post #111

AtomicOrbital wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when china shutdown domestic movement into/out of Wuhan they kept open international movement into/out of Wuhan ... at the same time neighbor countries with china tried to block cross boarder movement yet china forced those trade routes to stay open well after Wuhan had entered lockdown - pure evil

>when china shutdown domestic movement into/out of Wuhan they kept open international movement into/out of Wuhan I'd like someone else to confirm this because I've not heard about this before now.

A quick Googing indicates that Wuhan airport closed when the city was put into lockdown and re-opened yesterday when the lockdown of the city was lifted.

This makes sense considering that, when the lockdown started, many countries had to discuss with the Chinese government in order to allow special flights to evacuate their citizens.