Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#41

Post by not_exactly__ » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 3:52 PM UTC

FooBarWidget wrote: post #22

systemvoltage wrote: post #9

Actually this pandemic has shown some true colors of many nations. 1) US trying to unsuccessfully hoard supplies, issues with the German testing company 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. 3) European countries are in-fighting for supplies. Switzer…

> 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. Allow me to disagree with this one. I see people questioning China's motives on helping other countries, but in my opinion this is a baseless and overly cynical view of things, not truth. People want to buy int…

> “ but in my opinion this is a baseless and overly cynical view of things, not truth.”

It’s neither baseless or overly cynical if you’ve ever lived in China or have just spent enough time observing the CCP’s actions.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#42

Post by FooBarWidget » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 3:53 PM UTC

rorykoehler wrote: post #28

FooBarWidget wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. Allow me to disagree with this one. I see people questioning China's motives on helping other countries, but in my opinion this is a baseless and overly cynical view of things, not truth. People want to buy int…

The CCP don't have a great track record of giving a shit about people at home. What makes you think they care for anything but the opportunity/ability to project more power abroad?

I will also have to disagree on that one. I was born in China, I now live in Europe, and "CCP doesn't give a shit about people" is a bad western stereotype.

Of course, define "caring". Does any other government, including democratic ones, truly care about people? Debatable. But what I'm saying is that CCP is not the mass-murdering villain that Hacker News makes it out to be.

What about censorship, etc? Yes bad things do happen. Lots of good things also happen. Just like all countries, nothing is perfect. I don't need to remind you of all the human rights violations by the US. The point is: you need to have a more nuanced understanding of the CCP than that of a cartoon villain.

Here are some facts: all coronavirus patients got free treatment, free stays in isolation hotels, all Wuhan residents got free food delivered to their homes. In contrast to what happened here in Europe, the CCP took a strong stance to save as many of their own citizen as they can instead of worrying about economic impact.

You may not believe me. But take a look at these:

"I'm sitting home in Wuhan and eating free vegetables and fish govt sent me and you tell me it hurts my human rights???" -- https://twitter.com/ClaireRChen/status/1241971786062770176?s...

New Wuhan Doctor Speaks Out From Ground Zero -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyUHz62Uan8

American and Canadian, living & studying in China, talk about how it is actually like there -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufxfSJgQuSI

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#43

Post by system16 » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 3:53 PM UTC

FooBarWidget wrote: post #22

systemvoltage wrote: post #9

Actually this pandemic has shown some true colors of many nations. 1) US trying to unsuccessfully hoard supplies, issues with the German testing company 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. 3) European countries are in-fighting for supplies. Switzer…

> 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. Allow me to disagree with this one. I see people questioning China's motives on helping other countries, but in my opinion this is a baseless and overly cynical view of things, not truth. People want to buy int…

> they ordered the wrong thing. China did not intentionally send bad masks, nor was it a manufacturing quality problem.

That doesn't align with what's being reported (by other countries as well):

> "Thousands of testing kits and medical masks are below standard or defective, according to authorities in Spain, Turkey and the Netherlands."

> "Dutch officials said that the masks did not fit and that their filters did not work as intended, even though they had a quality certificate,"

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52092395

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#44

Post by camhenlin » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 3:53 PM UTC

guug wrote: post #39

Even if japan (or any other country) manages to pull production back within its boarders, wouldn't China still be more competitive due to cheaper labor/supply chain costs? IMO, the reason why companies outsourced their production to china still holds today. Companies pulling out will be at a competitive disadvantage against companies who don't.

That ought to depend on how heavily the Japanese government is willing to subsidize them

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#45

Post by not_exactly__ » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 3:54 PM UTC

magicsmoke wrote: post #33

FooBarWidget wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. Allow me to disagree with this one. I see people questioning China's motives on helping other countries, but in my opinion this is a baseless and overly cynical view of things, not truth. People want to buy int…

Considering this is an English site, most of the participants here are probably from the Anglosphere which, being led by the US, would tend to mistrust China. It's interesting how you mention that as Dutch and European, you don't have the same level of mistrust. Without a measure of how China is viewed, not just in the Anglosphere, but in Africa, Latin America, Southeast Asia, South Asia, the Islamic world, Central A…

The soft power only works on those that haven’t been exposed to it long enough. If you’ve dealt with China for a while, you know the real deal.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#46

Post by ubermon » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 3:54 PM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #9

Actually this pandemic has shown some true colors of many nations. 1) US trying to unsuccessfully hoard supplies, issues with the German testing company 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. 3) European countries are in-fighting for supplies. Switzer…

2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine.

I am curious what will be considered not fake and genuine support? Damned if they and damned if they don’t. AFAIK Dutch issued a article clarify the mistake they made which nobody seems to care. I don’t think any single nation can or will survive this alone unless they want to serve all connections to the world. So why it is not in China best interests to offer genuine support when they can? Not like a short sighted prick?

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#47

Post by philliphaydon » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 3:55 PM UTC

FooBarWidget wrote: post #42

rorykoehler wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CCP don't have a great track record of giving a shit about people at home. What makes you think they care for anything but the opportunity/ability to project more power abroad?

I will also have to disagree on that one. I was born in China, I now live in Europe, and "CCP doesn't give a shit about people" is a bad western stereotype. Of course, define "caring". Does any other government, including democratic ones, truly care about people? Debatable. But what I'm saying is that CCP is not the mass-murdering villain that Hacker News makes it out to be. What about censorship, etc? Yes bad things…

> I was born in China

Did you earn your red scarf?

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#48

Post by magicsmoke » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 3:55 PM UTC

not_exactly__ wrote: post #45

magicsmoke wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering this is an English site, most of the participants here are probably from the Anglosphere which, being led by the US, would tend to mistrust China. It's interesting how you mention that as Dutch and European, you don't have the same level of mistrust. Without a measure of how China is viewed, not just in the Anglosphere, but in Africa, Latin America, Southeast Asia, South Asia, the Islamic world, Central A…

The soft power only works on those that haven’t been exposed to it long enough. If you’ve dealt with China for a while, you know the real deal.

Want to give which geographical region you're from so I can put it down as an anecdotal datapoint?

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#49

Post by FooBarWidget » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 3:55 PM UTC

system16 wrote: post #43

FooBarWidget wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. Allow me to disagree with this one. I see people questioning China's motives on helping other countries, but in my opinion this is a baseless and overly cynical view of things, not truth. People want to buy int…

> they ordered the wrong thing. China did not intentionally send bad masks, nor was it a manufacturing quality problem. That doesn't align with what's being reported (by other countries as well): > "Thousands of testing kits and medical masks are below standard or defective, according to authorities in Spain, Turkey and the Netherlands." > "Dutch officials said that the masks did not fit and that their filters did no…

That's what they initially said, before the research happened. That caused China to be upset. After the research it turns out to be an order problem on the Dutch side after all.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#50

Post by kosievdmerwe » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 3:57 PM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #9

Actually this pandemic has shown some true colors of many nations. 1) US trying to unsuccessfully hoard supplies, issues with the German testing company 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. 3) European countries are in-fighting for supplies. Switzer…

> 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine.

Given that China seems to force countries to pay for PPE the same countries previously donated to China, you're right for being skeptical.

https://abc14news.com/2020/04/06/china-forces-italy-to-buy-s...