Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#21

Post by TazeTSchnitzel » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 3:39 PM UTC

rsweeney21 wrote: post #14

systemvoltage wrote: post #9

Actually this pandemic has shown some true colors of many nations. 1) US trying to unsuccessfully hoard supplies, issues with the German testing company 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. 3) European countries are in-fighting for supplies. Switzer…

Nations exist to protect it's citizens. So yeah, as they should, each country is prioritizing their own needs before exporting any surplus to other countries. The challenge is no one really has any idea how much of the supplies they actually need. It's interesting to me that you find this surprising or view it as bad behavior.

States use serving a “nation” as a retroactive justification for doing what they have always done.

In a global crisis, selfish actions help nobody.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#22

Post by FooBarWidget » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 3:40 PM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #9

Actually this pandemic has shown some true colors of many nations. 1) US trying to unsuccessfully hoard supplies, issues with the German testing company 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. 3) European countries are in-fighting for supplies. Switzer…

> 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine.

Allow me to disagree with this one. I see people questioning China's motives on helping other countries, but in my opinion this is a baseless and overly cynical view of things, not truth. People want to buy into the "China has motives" story so much, that they jump on every incident that may imply that.

The Dutch situation is typical. FYI: I am Dutch. Research has shown that mistakes were made on the Dutch side: because of haste and pressure (because supplies are low), and because the buyers didn't fully understand Chinese mask standards, they ordered the wrong thing. China did not intentionally send bad masks, nor was it a manufacturing quality problem.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#23

Post by TazeTSchnitzel » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 3:41 PM UTC

bedhead wrote: post #20

Trump has a limitless number of flaws (I didn't vote for him) but goddamn has he been prescient about Chinese trade, their never-ending shenanigans (hacking, spying, stealing, anti-competitive actions), and bringing back manufacturing and supply chain jobs back. I'm glad to see other countries wake up to this, even if it's without the fanfare of Trump. Let China make plastic toys and other nonessentials, the rest I'd…

He wasn't prescient: he gets his ideas from Fox News and conservative ideologues, and if he made any prophecies, they were self-fulfilling, because his administration has intentionally created the current circus around China.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#24

Post by atonse » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 3:41 PM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #9

Actually this pandemic has shown some true colors of many nations. 1) US trying to unsuccessfully hoard supplies, issues with the German testing company 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. 3) European countries are in-fighting for supplies. Switzer…

As it should be. A nation's government should ABSOLUTELY put its citizens over everything else. Not sure what you would have them do instead?

What is happening is unfair to some, but the individual governments are doing exactly what they should be doing, valuing their people above all else.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#25

Post by op03 » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 3:42 PM UTC

tren-hard wrote: post #5

So Japanese companies move operations to China because it's cheaper, leaving Japanese jobs behinds. Those businesses profit from cheap labor, emissions, and materials. Now Japan is subsidizing their return to Japan with $2.2 billion. I really hope the US doesn't adopt this (narrator: they will). It's a slap in the face to tax payers.

Small amount compared to the trade volumes between Japan and China.

Also just last year in this weird universe, Trump's great Trade War with both Japan and China, actually got both to start looking for ways to increase those volumes as a counterbalance.

The world is just too complex.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#26

Post by bedhead » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 3:43 PM UTC

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #23

bedhead wrote: post #20

Trump has a limitless number of flaws (I didn't vote for him) but goddamn has he been prescient about Chinese trade, their never-ending shenanigans (hacking, spying, stealing, anti-competitive actions), and bringing back manufacturing and supply chain jobs back. I'm glad to see other countries wake up to this, even if it's without the fanfare of Trump. Let China make plastic toys and other nonessentials, the rest I'd…

He wasn't prescient: he gets his ideas from Fox News and conservative ideologues, and if he made any prophecies, they were self-fulfilling, because his administration has intentionally created the current circus around China.

Nice try - he's been saying this for literally decades. I used to think it was stupid too. Not so much anymore.

I expect a mountain of downvotes for simply saying Trump has been right...

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#27

Post by TeMPOraL » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 3:46 PM UTC

atonse wrote: post #24

systemvoltage wrote: post #9

Actually this pandemic has shown some true colors of many nations. 1) US trying to unsuccessfully hoard supplies, issues with the German testing company 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. 3) European countries are in-fighting for supplies. Switzer…

As it should be. A nation's government should ABSOLUTELY put its citizens over everything else. Not sure what you would have them do instead? What is happening is unfair to some, but the individual governments are doing exactly what they should be doing, valuing their people above all else.

That's true, but at the same time, it shows the need for a global government to coordinate responses to global problems like this pandemic.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#28

Post by rorykoehler » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 3:46 PM UTC

FooBarWidget wrote: post #22

systemvoltage wrote: post #9

Actually this pandemic has shown some true colors of many nations. 1) US trying to unsuccessfully hoard supplies, issues with the German testing company 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. 3) European countries are in-fighting for supplies. Switzer…

> 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. Allow me to disagree with this one. I see people questioning China's motives on helping other countries, but in my opinion this is a baseless and overly cynical view of things, not truth. People want to buy int…

The CCP don't have a great track record of giving a shit about people at home. What makes you think they care for anything but the opportunity/ability to project more power abroad?

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#29

Post by wendyshu » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 3:46 PM UTC

atonse wrote: post #24

systemvoltage wrote: post #9

Actually this pandemic has shown some true colors of many nations. 1) US trying to unsuccessfully hoard supplies, issues with the German testing company 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. 3) European countries are in-fighting for supplies. Switzer…

As it should be. A nation's government should ABSOLUTELY put its citizens over everything else. Not sure what you would have them do instead? What is happening is unfair to some, but the individual governments are doing exactly what they should be doing, valuing their people above all else.

Have morals that aren't a function of geographic location, presumably.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#30

Post by FooBarWidget » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 3:46 PM UTC

jennyyang wrote: post #4

At the very least, medical supplies and drugs manufacturing will get pulled back into each country. The 3M spat between Canada and the US makes it abundantly clear that in a time of true crisis, you can't even trust your closest friends when something terrifying happens to the world like this pandemic. Whether it means all manufacturing will move away from China or if it means that they will spread it globally, is an…

> China will have more incidents of pandemics for sure, because they haven't learned from the last one, and they won't learn from this one.

I disagree. They took many months to report SARS to WHO, yes. But this time, reporting to WHO took ~5 days. It was discovered by dr Zhang Jixian on Dec 26, then reported to WHO on Dec 31. Then it took them about another week to sequence the genome and share it with the world. Plus the whole lockdown shows that they obviously made plans beforehand. The difference is huge.

Take a look at this timeline by the American Medical Association: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762130

We've now been able to trace the earliest case back to November, but nobody knew about it until late December, so that doesn't count as cover-up.

It wasn't good enough, that's true. And before human-to-human transmission was confirmed, they should have been a bit faster, though I would argue they couldn't have been much more faster than about a week or two.

Mistakes definitely have been made, and it still isn't good enough, but "they haven't learned and they won't learn" is quite simply not true, and is more based on prejudice than fact.