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The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

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Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#81

Post by _-___________-_ »

artemonster wrote: post #3

I don't understand how to deal with deniers anymore. I've tried sharing a lot of explanations/articles/videos to the "tis just a flu, bro" crowd from my friends and this convinced nobody. I guess showing even this fact/statistic would do nothing too. Is there a cure or a method to convert such dense crowd? (well, besides bashing their heads with something heavy)

As someone who tends to have a skeptical approach to most things, including this: you could consider not lumping into the same box every person who doesn't agree with every aspect of the prevailing viewpoint on something.

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#82

Post by 2008guy »

arel wrote: post #65
2008guy wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m talking about the death toll at the end of the day, not the current death toll. I’m talking about the likely maximum number to ever be infected (roughly herd immunity number) multiplied by the percentage of people that the virus kills. I understand exponential growth. People who have their own opinions are not necessarily suffering from a lack of math knowledge.

And if we follow your premise that this is hysteria and we go back to work how many absolute numbers of people will die vs other causes of preventable death? Herd immunity would still mean millions of dead people you'd have to step over. The countries that thought they could go this route did a hard reverse once reality hit them.

That final tally of bodies is a drop in the bucket of 7 billion, as I have already pointed out.

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#83

Post by sailingparrot »

mmmmmyumyum wrote: post #11

How do you know that this was the cause of death when all we know is that these people were tested positive on Covid19 before they died? Not denying that Covid19 is a thing and measures are necessary but I think this question is valid when reading such headlines.

I would bet this number is an underestimate, not at overestimate.

There are probably more people dying in their homes of covid-19 without ever having received a test (and thus not being counted) than people with a severe covid-19 reaction (since its still very hard to get tested if you have mild symptoms) but dying from something else.

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#84

Post by gshdg »

mmmmmyumyum wrote: post #11

How do you know that this was the cause of death when all we know is that these people were tested positive on Covid19 before they died? Not denying that Covid19 is a thing and measures are necessary but I think this question is valid when reading such headlines.

So something else is causing a huge spike in mortality rates?

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#85

Post by qtplatypus »

laszlokorte wrote: post #19
artemonster wrote: post #3

I don't understand how to deal with deniers anymore. I've tried sharing a lot of explanations/articles/videos to the "tis just a flu, bro" crowd from my friends and this convinced nobody. I guess showing even this fact/statistic would do nothing too. Is there a cure or a method to convert such dense crowd? (well, besides bashing their heads with something heavy)

I have no opinion on this but I have read multiple times now that currently if someone dies, say on Heart Disease, and has positively tested on Covid-19, that the death cause is counted as Covid-19. So depending on how many people are really already infected it would be currently kind of impossible to die of anything but Covid-19. Maybe that's all wrong but at least that's how the deniers argue I guess. Can someone r…

Dr's are not going to say that person who was asymptomatic but was infected with covid-19 died of it if there was something else. However they are going to record that the person was infected because that information is useful for later medical/epidemiological research.

However there is also a good chance that even if covid-19 isn't the only contributor to a person's death. For example a person with heart disease can extract enough O2 from the air to live but because of there disease they are below the normal human amount. Then comes along covid-19 with futher reduces their body's effectiveness and the person doesn't have enought air to live.

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#86

Post by cesarb »

roenxi wrote: post #53
artemonster wrote: post #3

I don't understand how to deal with deniers anymore. I've tried sharing a lot of explanations/articles/videos to the "tis just a flu, bro" crowd from my friends and this convinced nobody. I guess showing even this fact/statistic would do nothing too. Is there a cure or a method to convert such dense crowd? (well, besides bashing their heads with something heavy)

In a sense they might be rational; anyone under 50 has a 95% of being out of action for a week or two then getting back up unaided. That is much less punishing for them than the lockdown unless they are the unlucky 1 in 20. Not prudent, but about the same level of risk assessment people use when talking on mobiles while driving. One of the major issues is the Boomers are hitting that delicate age where things start t…

> anyone under 50 has a 95% of being out of action for a week or two then getting back up unaided.

Now consider a home with four people under 50. The chance of someone in that home getting unlucky is then around 1 in 5. There is only a 81% chance of all four "being out of action for a week or two then getting back up unaided".

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#87

Post by tomohawk »

tomohawk wrote: post #62
artemonster wrote: post #3

I don't understand how to deal with deniers anymore. I've tried sharing a lot of explanations/articles/videos to the "tis just a flu, bro" crowd from my friends and this convinced nobody. I guess showing even this fact/statistic would do nothing too. Is there a cure or a method to convert such dense crowd? (well, besides bashing their heads with something heavy)

> deniers... > bro crowd ... > dense crowd ... > bashing their heads ... Maybe it's your tone?

EDIT: just stating the obvious. if your post is dripping with condescension, then I can only imagine what your conversations are like. Take a deep breath, present your case, and keep what's important (your relationship with who you're talking with) at the forefront.

Here's a nice talking point:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-deaths-covid-19?cou...

In the US, the number of deaths has doubled since last week. That site has many other interesting charts.

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#88

Post by stingraycharles »

2008guy wrote: post #82
arel wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if we follow your premise that this is hysteria and we go back to work how many absolute numbers of people will die vs other causes of preventable death? Herd immunity would still mean millions of dead people you'd have to step over. The countries that thought they could go this route did a hard reverse once reality hit them.

That final tally of bodies is a drop in the bucket of 7 billion, as I have already pointed out.

You're comparing millions of death in the US to the world population. It would be more fair to either use the expected number of deaths worldwide if we just continued our business, or compare it to the total population of the US.

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#89

Post by igetspam »

cfontes wrote: post #34
yetihehe wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two sayings which sum up this situation rather well. > Arguing with stupid is like wrestling with pig in mud. After some time you see that pig seems to like it. > Arguing with stupid is like playing chess with a pigeon. It will topple figures, shit in board and be proud of winning. The problem is when their stupidity affects your life.

The pig one is very nice, I like this one “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” Attributed to Mark Twain

Unless you know pigs. I can assure you they don't actually like it. They prefer clean water but go with mud because it's usually available. Wrestling with them in anything makes them unhappy (they're prey animals and it's instinctual). The only way to get a pig to do something like that and MAYBE be OK with it is food. I usually fill a kiddie pool with fresh water and Cheerios, to bathe them. The trick it to bathe them faster than they can gobble the Cheerios.

And today you learned something. You're welcome. Hopefully that was a good momentary distraction and you didn't have to thing about all the idiots who think covid isn't really all that bad for a couple seconds. :)

Re: The leading cause of death in the US on Apr 6 was Covid-19

#90

Post by edgefield0 »

pjc50 wrote: post #70
artemonster wrote: post #3

I don't understand how to deal with deniers anymore. I've tried sharing a lot of explanations/articles/videos to the "tis just a flu, bro" crowd from my friends and this convinced nobody. I guess showing even this fact/statistic would do nothing too. Is there a cure or a method to convert such dense crowd? (well, besides bashing their heads with something heavy)

There are three big factors at play. These factors are magnified in cults, but you can actually see them working at the small scale even in your office or family about completely trivial subjects. The first is hierarchy - most people get their idea of true/false right/wrong through the social structure they're embedded in, and from who they consider senior and look up to. This is pretty fixed even if the senior figur…

This is essentially a cult. Sounds about right.
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