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Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

latimes.com

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Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#111

Post by anoonmoose »

triceratops wrote: post #95
anoonmoose wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say "increase the cost of labor" like it's nothing. Fact is, industries like this couldn't be operated on the up and up in the US- people wouldn't buy the product at the price it'd need to be sold for. I'm not saying this to justify the current conditions, I'm just pointing out that it's this or an eradication of the industry. edit: an eradication I'm totally fine with.

It's a fallacy to say "people wouldn't buy the product because it's too expensive" when the product is food. People kinda have to buy food, no matter what. If every food producer is subject to the same regulations, every food retailer's prices will go up. Countries tend to protect their agricultural industry from foreign competition fairly effectively, particularly for staples.

We ain't talking beer or bread, we're talking about fresh strawberries. Not exactly a staple.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#112

Post by triceratops »

anoonmoose wrote: post #111
triceratops wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fallacy to say "people wouldn't buy the product because it's too expensive" when the product is food. People kinda have to buy food, no matter what. If every food producer is subject to the same regulations, every food retailer's prices will go up. Countries tend to protect their agricultural industry from foreign competition fairly effectively, particularly for staples.

We ain't talking beer or bread, we're talking about fresh strawberries. Not exactly a staple.

If every fresh strawberry producer is held to the same standards, people will either buy the strawberries at the new price or go without. The strawberry industry isn't going to be wiped out.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#113

Post by tw04 »

gridlockd wrote: post #93
Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the industry can't survive by following the rules then the leaders of that industry who profited from illicit behaviors should go to prison for decades and their assets should be sold off to pay damages to the effected. The industry can correct itself or die off. If no one wants a product at a humane price then the industry should go extinct in a functioning society.

> The industry can correct itself or die off. If no one wants a product at a humane price then the industry should go extinct in a functioning society. Okay, but is there a functioning society? Is there some welfare system where these people could take refuge? I don't think so. These workers come all the way from some place where their situation wouldn't be any better, otherwise that's where they'd stay. Should the i…

That's exactly what the southern slave owners tried claiming as well... and some slaves chose to stay because they believed the alternative would be worse. It doesn't mean we should support inhumane treatment of other people so that a handful of "Farmers" can get rich.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#114

Post by therealdrag0 »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #90
ng12 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zero exposure for someone working on a farm is utterly unrealistic.

Zero exposure is probably unrealistic for everyone, but it's not unrealistic to give farm workers disposable masks, gloves, hand sanitizers, and washing stations, put effort into keeping them six feet apart as they work, and provide sufficient paid leave so they don't feel pressure to keep working even if they believe they're sick. I think that's really what we're talking about here.

"As they work" is not the problem. Many of them are migrant worker who will reside in temporary housing akin to a bunk-house/dorm. They will be very exposed to the many people they are living with.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#115

Post by viklove »

burkaman wrote: post #96
jnwatson wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government doesn't control the price of corn, oil, coal, or steel except indirectly via government policy.

Subsidies paid directly to farmers are not indirect. The Energy Policy Act ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Policy_Act_of_2005 ), which sets a mandatory minimum amount of corn that must be made into ethanol, is not indirect.

Turns out we value corn more than the people who farm corn. What a time to be alive.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#116

Post by throwaway94697 »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #80
wscott wrote: post #39

Sorry, I am going to be the insensitive sleazeball here. The point of staying at home is not that if you get this disease you are going to die. The issue is that if we ALL get it then a larger proportion of people are going to die because we don't have enough hospitals. We had to choose some people as being important enough that they are allowed to be out and about and use some of that valuable limited healthcare res…

I think it's pretty sad we passed a $2.2T stimulus bill, with $500Bn in unemployment benefits, so the average person that gets laid off can make about $60k a year (adjusted for taxes) to not work -- and we did hardly nothing to protect people that actually need to work and are at high risk! Worst of all, most of these jobs are low paying -- much less than you'd get from the current unemployment. We basically created…

In the majority of cases, one cannot receive unemployment benefits if they quit their job. Unemployment benefits are generally for those have been laid off. Additionally, one must be actively looking for work in order to receive unemployment benefits, so those collecting benefits are not just "not working".

The reason many nurses go into the profession is to help people, not because of the pay. Not everybody lets money govern their lives.

In the future, I'd actually read before you spout off. Your numbers seem very dodgy and your logic even dodgier.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#117

Post by bluGill »

thatcat wrote: post #84
missedthecue wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things like "fair pay" and "living wage" are political talking points. In short, what the living wage is really about is not living standards, or economics, but morality. Its advocates refuse to come to terms with the fact that wages are market price–determined by supply and demand, the same as the price of oil, steel, corn, or coal. And it is for that reason, rather than the practical details, that the broader polit…

Lol, the price of corn, or even oil, coal, and steel are constantly adjusted by gov policies. You've proven the opposite of your point - market price is political and can be controlled when it is politically favorable.

There is political intervention, but even that works in context of the market and so can only go so far.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#118

Post by bluGill »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #100
earthshot wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The case fatality rate changes quite dramatically when hospitals are overloaded. Additionally, the fatality rate of _other_ causes increases when hospitals are overloaded. Flatting the curve saves lives even if the total number of infected people remains the same.

The issue I see now is that some areas are locking down when there is no curve to be flattened. This is likely causing more harm than not, because hospitals are sitting empty waiting for when people will inevitably get sick.

With the 14 day incubation period there is no way to know if they are locked down needleessly or not.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#119

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

throwaway94697 wrote: post #116
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's pretty sad we passed a $2.2T stimulus bill, with $500Bn in unemployment benefits, so the average person that gets laid off can make about $60k a year (adjusted for taxes) to not work -- and we did hardly nothing to protect people that actually need to work and are at high risk! Worst of all, most of these jobs are low paying -- much less than you'd get from the current unemployment. We basically created…

In the majority of cases, one cannot receive unemployment benefits if they quit their job. Unemployment benefits are generally for those have been laid off. Additionally, one must be actively looking for work in order to receive unemployment benefits, so those collecting benefits are not just "not working". The reason many nurses go into the profession is to help people, not because of the pay. Not everybody lets mon…

No need to be rude.

You could do the math...

Over the next 4 months, if you get laid off and you were making less than $60k, you're almost guaranteed to not be negatively financially impacted. Over a longer horizon, who knows what else congress might pass. Maybe in 5 months you'll be screwed. Maybe not. Who knows?

The government is sending everyone making less than $60k a one-time $1200 transfer (federally tax free), plus $600 (federally tax free) per week. This is a total of $11,600 (if you're laid off). Adjusted for taxes on an annual basis, that's over $50k.

Then you add in state unemployment. Even somewhere like Florida that has one of the lowest maximum unemployment payouts in the country ($275/week), will almost certainly push you over $60k on an annualized basis.

California, Texas, New York, Illinois, Pennsylvania, and Ohio (representing about 40% of the country) all pay roughly a max of $460/week.

Generally, if you make $50k, most states will pay you out close to $460. Some like Florida will pay much less. Some like Massachusetts will pay much more.

Over the 4 month period, this would push your income up to $11,600 (federally tax free) + $8000 (taxed). On an annualized, tax-adjusted basis, the average person making $40k who is laid off would now be making close to $80k.

That's better than 78% of Americans.

Additionally, you could read the bill. The bill sates you can file for unemployment if you quit your job because you are impacted by Coronavirus -- which includes 1) if you get the virus, 2) if you take care of someone that has the virus, or 3) if you believe working puts you in danger of contracting the virus.

Source: https://www.cnet.com/how-to/coronavirus-unemployment-payment...

Additionally, do you have a source that most nurses go into the job to help people and not make money? Anecdata is not data, but I'm good friends with several nurses, and every single one of them doesn't like the job, but thinks it's a good option because the pay is good. Maybe you have the opposite experience. A study would be nice, but I'm not able to find one.

I don't know any nurse aids.

Re: Farmworkers face coronavirus risk: ‘You can’t pick strawberries over Zoom’

#120

Post by bluGill »

sjg007 wrote: post #3
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #2

You don't catch anything from a strawberry. This job is fundamentally no different from others, and way safer than for instance fast-food-window worker.

These farm workers live in bunk houses basically and are trucked in on school buses. Most of them are migrant laborers or undocumented immigrants. Those conditions are not safe.

For context, housing is not something they are required to take. The they can live in a tent which is what they were doing 70 years ago when the farmers felt sorry for them living in a tent and built a bunk house for them to live in if they wanted. Bad as a bunkhouse is, almost everyone agrees it is better than a tent and so they live in that. (I love sleeping in a tent, but that is because it is a vacation I do once a year, most of my nights are spent in a house)
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