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From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

bloomberg.com

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Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#421

Post by pacman83 »

fock wrote: post #342
twomoretime wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point enough harvests will be missed because of lockdown that famines become inevitable. The choice to risk it will probably me made too late. Not sure why I'm getting downvoted. Food takes months to grow and needs to be harvested within a short window. By the time people realize there's a famine coming it will be too late. Just look at how we could have prepared in January for this virus if people weren't so…

which country (except China in Hubei) actually locked down agriculture?

US relies on farm workers from Mexico and is not letting as many in, partly due to suspension of visa operations.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#422

Post by bluGill »

PeterisP wrote: post #306
usrusr wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it sound as if the farmers were the only ones affected if they fail to get in their harvest.

Products which require a lot of manual effort to harvest are generally luxury goods, not essential for feeding the population. If for whatever reason it seems that this year there's not going to be enough migrant labor to harvest your strawberries, then when the spring comes you can plow that field over and plant potatoes, which will require much, much less labor and feed more people from the same field. This year is…

Strawberry to potatoes is a poor gamble. They like different soils. Even ignoring that, when you harvest all those potatoes you are selling into a market that already supplies all the potatoes people want so prices will drop.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#423

Post by chris1993 »

Gustomaximus wrote: post #368

Extremely anecdotal but in Australia we are seeing people from the retail sector looking at farm work, often the domain of backpackers who are now.not traveling. It is a rebalancing so will likely come with some issues but if cafes/stores etc remain closed perhaps we will likely see these workers head to farms and balance the issue.

I'm not sure this will happen as the state borders are being closed and governments are strongly advising people to stay put. Also the federal government is looking at an 80% of wage scheme similar to the UK which must reduce the pressure to move just to cover living expenses.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#424

Post by beerandt »

Spooky23 wrote: post #318
dirtyid wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely coming to the US too, big suppliers are ringing very small producers to fill in orders because US can't get any Mexican farmhands in. Canada is exempting and flying in migrant labours. There's also panic in meat supply chains with Tyson strikes. I'd like to think Canada is safe but prices would probably get nutty if there's excess US demand unless we ban exports. Also migrant labours live like sardines, 20+ sh…

I have friends who are locomotive engineers, none of them have been called out for 3 weeks. Everything is stopping. I think the US is going to learn why it’s dangerous to centralize food supply. Most of the local farmers in my region (upstate ny) are bankrupt, and much of our production or processing of food is from far away. The half and half from my grocer is processed in Virginia.

A bit off topic, but regarding the railroads:

A big chunk of US rail traffic demand over the last decade has been oil, which was already dropping as pipeline construction caught up with demand under the new administration's pipeline policies.

(Tangent: For those not familiar, check out Buffet's meeting/deal with Obama admin re: pipeline policy after Berkshire picked up UP stock for cheap.)

The railroads enjoyed a virtual monopoly on additional oil transport capacity for years, but I suspect the latest drop in oil demand might signal the last element needed to completely end that era.

If true, then they might see a slight/temp bump in rail demand in a few months as petroleum storage fills up, when tanker cars are repositioned as a last resort storage option for over-supply.

Point being, the abrupt drop in rail traffic likely has more to do with the drop in oil demand than grain or any other rail transported product.

Which you could still ultimately blame on covid, but it's not necessarily representative of a collapse in multiple markets. Just oil trimming the excess.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#425

Post by Proven »

tomp wrote: post #332
rusk wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think English people want to do this kind of work ...

If the 80% of salary from the government came with strings attached (i.e. "basic job", not UBI "basic income"), this wouldn't be a problem (provided that either masks are provided as well, or work is organized so that social distancing is maintained).

it would be even less of a problem if it didn't.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#426

Post by ekianjo »

vkou wrote: post #377
jsjddbbwj wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't want to do it because of the salary.

And this is where we discover that the most important jobs that keep society running pay the least.

They pay the least because you don't need qualifications to do them, and supply of non-qualified people >>> demand. Simple economics.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#427

Post by drstewart »

downrightmike wrote: post #401
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a month or so, once the daily deaths subside, people will risk it with the coronavirus rather than having a recession turn into a depression. This will be the correct choice.

ennnnnnnnt. That's the buzzer, signaling that this is some bullshit. No one wants to die period. full stop. Greedy to the very end.

Guess what? Everyone dies. And every day is a choice between things that increase that risk.

Saying "no one wants to die, stop being greedy!" as if you can eliminate all deaths through a simple action is a nice low effort slogan that doesn't make any sense in the real world.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#428

Post by mikekchar »

infinite8s wrote: post #406
empath75 wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So pay more than $25 an hour. There is surely a salary that people will accept to do the work. I don’t know why everyone assumes that manual labor only deserves near poverty wages.

No one will pay $5 for an avocado.

Clearly, you've never been to Japan ;-) We've got $50 grapes! And that's for one grape... not a bunch... But I think you are correct that most North Americans especially are geared toward buying the cheapest produce available, often regardless of quality or production methods. I think it's slowly been changing over the years, but people still baulk at paying prices that would sustain small family farms without imported cheap labour. However, every time this kind of discussions come up, I feel it necessary to point out that vast majority of cost in food production is distribution, not production. This is due to the practical monopoly on food distribution that some companies have. You could actually raise the production price a pretty hefty amount without affecting the final price terribly if you regulated the distribution. Of course, what would the poor Cargill's do? They wouldn't be able to have swimming pools full of money. That won't do...

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#429

Post by banmeagaindan2 »

Mirioron wrote: post #206
banmeagaindan2 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does not need to be most Americans and a lot of office workers would prefer to be farmers if the wage were correct. We have markets - let the prices rise and we will see more farmers in the future. E; I know it is not your theory Doreen - but it is a popular species of liberal (meaning democrat + republican) political propaganda. Everything Moravec's Paradox ever said, everything Peter Thiel ever said about automa…

I don't think most would prefer to be farmers. Farm labor is one of the most dangerous occupations in the US: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/27/the-10-most-dangerous-jobs-i...

Being a solider is dangerous. Being a nurse is dangerous.

The real problem isn't just wages - it is also that our society decided some jobs are for people not bright enough to get into university so stigma hollowed the pride of the working class and that is what really cheapened and demoralized their labour.

Mike Rowe nailed it.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#430

Post by abootstrapper »

pvaldes wrote: post #375
abootstrapper wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don’t get this. How is this helpful against the pandemic?

What? No more illegal pangolin for dinner?.

Honest question. How is the EPA suspending enforcement aid in the fight against Covid-19?
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