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From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

bloomberg.com

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Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#351

Post by ricardobeat »

Spooky23 wrote: post #318
dirtyid wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely coming to the US too, big suppliers are ringing very small producers to fill in orders because US can't get any Mexican farmhands in. Canada is exempting and flying in migrant labours. There's also panic in meat supply chains with Tyson strikes. I'd like to think Canada is safe but prices would probably get nutty if there's excess US demand unless we ban exports. Also migrant labours live like sardines, 20+ sh…

I have friends who are locomotive engineers, none of them have been called out for 3 weeks. Everything is stopping. I think the US is going to learn why it’s dangerous to centralize food supply. Most of the local farmers in my region (upstate ny) are bankrupt, and much of our production or processing of food is from far away. The half and half from my grocer is processed in Virginia.

The crisis started not even a month ago. What kind of business are people running that go bankrupt in a couple weeks?

At least where I come from, most local farmers can't "go bankrupt" as they are family businesses and have very low operating costs - worst case is sitting idle at home.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#352

Post by Reelin »

Spooky23 wrote: post #318
dirtyid wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely coming to the US too, big suppliers are ringing very small producers to fill in orders because US can't get any Mexican farmhands in. Canada is exempting and flying in migrant labours. There's also panic in meat supply chains with Tyson strikes. I'd like to think Canada is safe but prices would probably get nutty if there's excess US demand unless we ban exports. Also migrant labours live like sardines, 20+ sh…

I have friends who are locomotive engineers, none of them have been called out for 3 weeks. Everything is stopping. I think the US is going to learn why it’s dangerous to centralize food supply. Most of the local farmers in my region (upstate ny) are bankrupt, and much of our production or processing of food is from far away. The half and half from my grocer is processed in Virginia.

> ... none of them have been called out for 3 weeks. Everything is stopping.

I had naively assumed (in the US) that agriculture and rail would be considered essential industries and continue as usual? Is this all due to migrant labor issues?

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#353

Post by xchaotic »

dirtyid wrote: post #261
Scoundreller wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, with everyone being at home, and a lot of bullshit tasks being eliminated/deferred (my driver's license is automatically good for an extra 6 months), caloric demand is probably down 10%. As our muscles atrophy, basal metabolic rates will decrease too. Undetermined what kind of hit to population COVID will cause, but I'm estimating <1%.

Ironically, for countries that can contain properly, maybe even net gain in life. HK doctors was talking about how flu season ended months early due to all the measures being taken. I'm guessing road fatalities, work place accidents and all sorts of other causes of death is way down.

Not to mention the massive spike in birth rates that I expect 9 months from now (sooner for China)

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#354

Post by jiggawatts »

Etheryte wrote: post #319
thyrsus wrote: post #156

Low wages for field workers (e.g. picking berries) has stunted automation of these tasks, though I think we're now at the level of robotics (especially computer vision) where it's feasible.

Sadly, I think this is an example of what I would maybe call the HN Dunning-Kruger approach to many problems: "just" use IT/AI/robots/etc. There are many companies who have been working in this space for a long time, there's a reason why it's still manual work — it's freaking hard. Berries are a good example of this, personally I'm intricately familiar with the strawberry industry, but I believe it applies elsewhere…

It has been done! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCivsotZEjk

There's actually several designs out there for picking strawberries, but like the OP said, expensive robots aren't competitive with cheap labour. If the labour pool dries up, they're more economically viable.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#355

Post by xxgreg »

vonmoltke wrote: post #228
robocat wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China would've been eating 30-32% of world's food by value, while producing 20% of it by itself References? And of course, that is by value... I’m in NZ and it’s been in the news about how our our crayfish (lobster in US) exports to China crashed, but that’s a high value food. China imports a lot of “unnecessary” luxury foods from NZ (deer, fruit, salmon, mussels, etc), although I don’t know anything about volumes…

> crayfish (lobster in US) Crayfish is crawfish in the US, not lobster

NZ Crayfish are called Rock Lobster in the US.

http://www.leefishusa.com/products/lobster/spiny

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#356

Post by [deleted] »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #160
pjc50 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price is set by wholesalers, especially supermarkets. I'm not convinced they can re-eqilibriate the market before the harvest spoils.

If the wholesalers want the product to sell it, then they will change the price so that it makes sense to harvest it.

[deleted]

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#357

Post by pvaldes »

mft_ wrote: post #315
jagger27 wrote: post #309

Got a butternut squash in your pantry? Maybe a couple of tomatoes? Cook it up for dinner and save some seeds! Wash off the pulp and dry them out on a paper towel. It's not too late to start some seedlings, and it's a nice way to pass the time. I've also been experimenting with different dried beans that we stocked up on, and most of them have a pretty high germination rate. Roma beans are super tasty and high in prot…

Thanks for this! Can you recommend some simple concise instructions on growing tomatoes? I’ve explored a little in the past, but always seemed to run into fairly impenetrable instructions. A basic list of what to buy (in non-gardeners’ terminology) and some simple instructions would be great.

> Can you recommend some simple concise instructions on growing tomatoes?

Simple and concise: Don't start with those. Tomato is not the more easy crop to grow. I would suggest to start with Cucurbitaceae like Cucumber or Zucchini, much more easier as long as they have lots of nitrogen.

If you provide some support to climb, Cucumbers can be raised even next to a window. The other need much more space. You pick them continuously when they are still small and non bitter.

You could even raise lattice and harvest it (one leaf at a time) before the end of the quarantine. Fast growing creature. Their only problem is that they are mostly water.

If you absolutely want to try tomato and your climate is correct the easier are the cherry tomato. They give less food par plant but can still produce lots of tiny tomatoes in a continous harvest. Is much more fungus resistant than the other varieties and very ornamental.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#358

Post by ricardobeat »

loopbit wrote: post #305
microtonal wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure about fresh food, but The Netherlands is world's second largest agricultural exporter (and no, it's not only flowers): https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/09/holland-... Also, it's not only about size, also efficiency. Scroll down the article and look at the insane yields per square mile for tomatoes, chilies + green peppers, and cucumbers. No other country comes even close.

The Netherlands are the biggest re-exporter of fruits and vegs. In terms of both quantity and value, they are behind Spain: https://www.freshplaza.com/article/2135083/netherlands-world...

> The Netherlands is the biggest exporter of fresh vegetables though, both looking at quantity and value

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#359

Post by ObsoleteNerd »

ricardobeat wrote: post #351
Spooky23 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have friends who are locomotive engineers, none of them have been called out for 3 weeks. Everything is stopping. I think the US is going to learn why it’s dangerous to centralize food supply. Most of the local farmers in my region (upstate ny) are bankrupt, and much of our production or processing of food is from far away. The half and half from my grocer is processed in Virginia.

The crisis started not even a month ago. What kind of business are people running that go bankrupt in a couple weeks? At least where I come from, most local farmers can't "go bankrupt" as they are family businesses and have very low operating costs - worst case is sitting idle at home.

There's "family farming" where you have a plot of land handed down to you and you tend to it yourself. A few tractors with PTO extensions, and handled by your family and maybe a few local workers. You'd sell to local grocery chains and markets.

Then there's "family farming", where you have a fleet of GPS-and-climate-control-equipped John Deere's on finance and invest heavily in automated irrigation and sell to wholesalers who provide to national chains.

The former are probably fine. The latter, who provide food for the country, are generally running on huge credit lines with payments to meet and in uncertain times like this can (and regularly do) very quickly go bankrupt.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#360

Post by IshKebab »

rusk wrote: post #321
neilwilson wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With 3 million people in the UK still without work that want it - and many more laid off, redundant or self-employed without clients, the solution should be obvious. Pay a decent wage and you'll get the people. The era of cheap labour is over.

I don’t think English people want to do this kind of work ...

Yeah because it is badly paid and physically demanding.
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