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Coyotes are being seen on the empty streets of San Francisco

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Re: Coyotes are being seen on the empty streets of San Francisco

#271

Post by thdrdt »

elliekelly wrote: post #232
thdrdt wrote: post #157

There are multiple documentaries about "What if people suddenly leave earth?". All those movies show how fast nature will take over. Within 10-14 days animals will be walking everywhere. So I am not surprised we see animals moving into cities. And it is also true a lot of animals are already around but are very shy. So we don't notice them but they are already around.

Can you recommend a good one? (Or two? I’ve suddenly got lots of time this weekend...)

Maybe this one: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aftermath:_Population_Zero

Re: Coyotes are being seen on the empty streets of San Francisco

#273

Post by tclancy »

jedberg wrote: post #222
soared wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in Europe, but in the US there is a ridiculous amount of untouched space a <20 miles from almost every major city with the exception of California and the north east.

It turns out there is no where you can go in the United States that is more than 20 miles from a paved road.

Is there a citation for that? I’d guess there are large parts of northern Maine that only have logging roads.

Re: Coyotes are being seen on the empty streets of San Francisco

#274

Post by toasterlovin »

netcan wrote: post #256
mwaitjmp wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the accepted period is around 15,000 years ago, possibly slightly earlier.

Those dates are in flux recently. As is the pattern in discoveries of our very ancient history... the story gets more complicated as we go. The fallacy that, IMO, we are falling into is (ironically) caused by scientific reductionism... the simplest explanation is probably the correct one. This doesn't work as well for the evidence types paleoanthropology has to work with.

With the advent of ancient DNA, we now have a second, relatively precise type of evidence also pointing at, IIRC, 15-20k years ago as when the initial peopling of the Americas took place.

Re: Coyotes are being seen on the empty streets of San Francisco

#275

Post by toasterlovin »

symmitchry wrote: post #204
monktastic1 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of a quote from Charles Eisenstein. He cites The Once and Future World and then channels Steve Nicholls in Paradise Found : "Atlantic salmon runs so abundant no one is able to sleep for their noise. Islands “as full of birds as a meadow is full of grass.” Whales so numerous they were a hazard to shipping, their spouts filling the entire sea with foam. Oysters more than a foot wide. An island covered by so…

I find the state of the environment so shockingly depressing, it's incredible. What would I give to see the world like that?

Well, you’d have to give billions of lives.

Re: Coyotes are being seen on the empty streets of San Francisco

#277

Post by Eric_WVGG »

knolax wrote: post #243
orbital-decay wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the continent was full of Native Americans who lived in an ecological balance with wildlife Native Americans weren't a monolithic group, and the balance with wildlife is just a part of the noble savage myth, for most of the groups. Maya, Toltec, and Aztec societies deforested Central America quite significantly before collapsing (and before Columbus).

> Aztec > before collapsing (and before Columbus) In the alternate universe you come from, who was fighting Cortez?

Unsure why this is downvoted. Toltec empire ended around 1200 AD. Mayans... hard to define, like the Rome technically even still around. The Aztec Empire was right there when the conquistadors showed up.

Re: Coyotes are being seen on the empty streets of San Francisco

#278

Post by fit2rule »

r6754dw wrote: post #249
fit2rule wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>noble savage myth Closet racism. There is far more evidence that Europeans destroyed these cultures and ignored their advances, than there is proving this so-called myth. See for example, the Australian FNP. They were far, far more advanced than European propagandists could allow anyone to imagine. We are STILL uncovering major advances in these cultures today.

I'm sure Europeans would have adopted any advances of great value to them, just like they adopted a lot of crops from the new world.

In fact, Europeans did - eventually - catch up with the Australian FNP's innate knowledge of healing. They had a form of resilient Hippocratic oath for literally thousands of years before us, for example. An understanding of antiseptics in a European age of miasma theory. And so on ..

Re: Coyotes are being seen on the empty streets of San Francisco

#279

Post by fit2rule »

pinkfoot wrote: post #244
fit2rule wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>noble savage myth Closet racism. There is far more evidence that Europeans destroyed these cultures and ignored their advances, than there is proving this so-called myth. See for example, the Australian FNP. They were far, far more advanced than European propagandists could allow anyone to imagine. We are STILL uncovering major advances in these cultures today.

> … the Australian FNP. They were far, far more advanced than European propagandists could allow anyone to imagine. Other thank some claims about land management and herbal medicine, what were that not only more advanced in but FAR more advanced? Ship building, metallurgy, literature, maths, chemistry, conflict management, law? I am genuinely curious.

Oldest continually running mining operation of mankind. Longest running school. A Hippocratic oath before Europeans genocided them. Forms of agriculture which literally guaranteed a well-fed populace. An understanding of antiseptic materials, and even micro-biology, in an age of European miasma theory and blood-letting.

There is much to learn about oneself once you drop the prejudice.

I'm not suggesting we haven't "advanced" beyond them now, but I am suggesting that we may have overlooked something in our race to the moon, and their 40,000 year old tradition of unbroken oral tradition ..

Re: Coyotes are being seen on the empty streets of San Francisco

#280

Post by Eric_WVGG »

nroets wrote: post #210
crazygringo wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure exactly what those quotes are referring to, but many reports of European settlers to the New World, while technically true, were greatly misleading. Prior to arrival of the Europeans, the continent was full of Native Americans who lived in an ecological balance with wildlife. When the Europeans arrived, the diseases they brought wiped out 90+% of the indigenous population, according to some estimates. By…

Native Americans arrived less than 80,000 years ago. That's a blink of an eye in evolutionary terms. They were not the natural predators.

perhaps I’m misunderstanding you, but humans are believed to have hunted many, many animals to extinction on the American content millennia before the Europeans got here. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/06/010608081621.h...
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