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How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

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Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#251

Post by cmurf »

ceejayoz wrote: post #156
danmaz74 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about that expert, but the reason I usually hear about not using masks is so that health professionals could get them - ie, the problem is that supply isn't currently enough for everybody, and we should prioritise those for which it's most helpful.

The problem with using "masks don't work!" to keep the supply available for healthcare is later on, when supply is available for universal mask wearing, they'll have eroded public trust when they do the 180 on the advice. They should've instead: * Banned sales of masks to the public until healthcare and other essential workers had enough stock. * Honestly conveyed the reasons for the above ban, in WWII-style "do your…

a) implies competency b) where's the profit? U.S. is a country where solidly 1/3, with enough political capital to prevent alternatives, believe that healthcare is a product not a right

(another 1/3 don't care because the system doesn't affect them, until it does)

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#252

Post by summerlight »

netsharc wrote: post #53
Freestyler_3 wrote: post #8

They took proactive measurements when the rest of the world was still looking at how things would develop. Making tests well before they had their first case. When my country got its first cases they were still saying it isn't that contagious and everything is fine.

It's a bit of luck that the coutry had a private biotech company that makes tests for viruses, and the CEO of said company looked at Wuhan and decided to get samples from China. I suppose, just like every country has a military or people managing their transportation infrastructure, there should be a "pandemic watch". (Well the US had a good one until Trump/John Bolton defunded it)

You're plainly wrong. In early January, S.K. government actually summoned all the private biotech companies and ordered them to prepare against potential epidemic scenarios.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#253

Post by tekkk »

covingkj wrote: post #198
tekkk wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are confusing "masks" as "surgical masks" aka. N95. He is meaning just the regular masks with no filtering whatsoever, that are very easy to manufacture. Hell you can even make them yourself. The N95 however, are quite difficult to build and require specialized machines to manufacture the filtering part, somebody linked a good article to it a couple days ago. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/16/8…

To be clear, surgical masks and N95 masks are different things. Both are in short supply in the US.

Ahh, yes I was a bit confused on the terminology. So surgical masks are just masks with some filtering capability but without a respirator.

And N95 is a respirator, which is different from mask as it protects the wearer better from airborne particles?

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#254

Post by marnett »

rkachowski wrote: post #145
danmaz74 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about that expert, but the reason I usually hear about not using masks is so that health professionals could get them - ie, the problem is that supply isn't currently enough for everybody, and we should prioritise those for which it's most helpful.

This is one message that has me really confused. Why are masks being sold to the general public if this is the case? It's as if manufacturers and suppliers are helpless but to profit from public demand and the fault is a personal moral failure on behalf of everyone that wants to buy a mask for their own use. How can medical supplies be interrupted by public usage? Are doctors expected to swing past a pharmacy on the…

At least in the US the main reason is the public hysteria that would be brought on by the mass cultural shift. The reality is most households in the US do not have masks. There would be similar chaos that the US has seen with toilet paper but on a more dire scale because they DO actually help and, unlike toilet paper, when they are gone they WON'T be replenished in a timely manner because there is a shortage of retail masks.

It's propaganda. It is reasonable propaganda as having to have actual PSAs on how to sew your own masks or make them out of materials at home would really start ramping up the general anxiety.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#255

Post by ValentineC »

tekkk wrote: post #253
covingkj wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, surgical masks and N95 masks are different things. Both are in short supply in the US.

Ahh, yes I was a bit confused on the terminology. So surgical masks are just masks with some filtering capability but without a respirator. And N95 is a respirator, which is different from mask as it protects the wearer better from airborne particles?

> So surgical masks are just masks with some filtering capability but without a respirator.

Surgical masks mainly prevent droplets from entering your nose and mouth, and your breath/sneezes/coughs from affecting others.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#256

Post by Karrot_Kream »

bitexploder wrote: post #242
DanBC wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can order comparable masks from China Why would you buy safety critical equipment from China? There are good reasons those hospitals have such strict requirements. http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-03/12/c_138870714.htm > A joint law enforcement operation by government agencies including the State Administration for Market Regulation (SAMR) was launched in early February, with over 80 million defective face m…

For our use, faulty KN95 masks are better than nothing. Maybe they suck but it’s better than nothing and probably better than home made masks. You have to shop around and find reputable sellers that have been in business a while to mitigate risks as much as possible. I trust Aliexpress slightly less than Amazon these days which says a lot. Amazon used to have my unquestioning trust. Now I barely use them in favor of…

Are they? It's unclear whether KN95 masks are better than a piece of fitted fabric around your mouth and nose. That's the trouble with masks; we don't know what works and what doesn't.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#257

Post by magduf »

endorphone wrote: post #236
throwaway743 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a) there is a weird social effect in much of the West where people get panicky, and somehow view someone else wearing a mask as increasing the odds, or at least the reality, that they instead will get sick Definitely experienced the stigma of wearing one in public. Have had reactions ranging from stares to hurriedly moving away from me. > We need to discard with that bullshit. We know with overwhelming evidence that…

"Definitely experienced the stigma of wearing one in public" People can be deeply illogical when it comes to personal protection. I did a summer stint during college with a factory, assembling some part of an air conditioner system for cars. This was done with huge, incredibly loud machines. Fiberglass. Etc. The company offered ear plugs, eye protection and masks. No one used them. There was a 0% utilization rate. It…

Where was this?

I used to work as an intern at a shipbuilding company making aircraft carriers. People wore stuff when they were required to, so hard hats were always worn, and the attached earmuffs seemed to be generally worn when someone was working with something very loud.

However, at one point I was helping an inspection in a tank and there was a noxious odor, and I couldn't breathe in it. The shipyard worker with me went ahead and went in and did the test, but after this I tried to procure a respirator and they refused to get me one, saying it wasn't necessary for the work I was doing.

Music concerts are another place where you don't see people using personal protection much, though I will say that's changed in the last 10 years from what I've seen. I do see a minority (but a growing one) of people wearing earplugs, and we now have a lot of choices for "musician's earplugs" being sold which are designed to have a neutral frequency attenuation.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#258

Post by dylz »

rsync wrote: post #197
sp332 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every cell phone user has to be tracked so the cell network knows how to route their calls. Result: https://twitter.com/TectonixGEO/status/1242628347034767361 (edited for better link)

Where did this researcher get the anonymized mobile phone location data points from ? Also, I think it's important to clarify that: "Every cell phone user has to be tracked so the cell network knows how to route their calls ..." ... would be more accurate if we said: "Every cell phone has to be tracked ..." Many pieces of the cellular network have no idea who the handset (or other device) is assigned to, or who is us…

As a note for readers: to get a mobile SIM in South Korea of any kind, you pretty much need identity verification.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#259

Post by tastroder »

sp332 wrote: post #221
rsync wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did this researcher get the anonymized mobile phone location data points from ? Also, I think it's important to clarify that: "Every cell phone user has to be tracked so the cell network knows how to route their calls ..." ... would be more accurate if we said: "Every cell phone has to be tracked ..." Many pieces of the cellular network have no idea who the handset (or other device) is assigned to, or who is us…

Good question. I updated the link to a more original source, which says the data is from X-Mode Social https://xmode.io/

Funny, same data source as this creepy submission from the US: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22700652

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#260

Post by magduf »

billfruit wrote: post #157

Last few days though, more numbers are being reported of new infections in both China and South Korea. Yesterday more than 100+ in SK I think.

Look at the infection rates in those countries: they're S-curves. New infections are being found, but the rate of increase is far lower than it was previously, and the majority of cases are cleared up. That shows they're likely on the tail end of the problem.

For European countries and the US, the curve looks asymptotic. There's no telling how high it'll go at this point.

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