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How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

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Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#171

Post by hguant »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #133
raaaaraaaa12 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.radio.cz/en/section/curraffrs/why-chinese-masks-... Czech authorities during a customs raid last Tuesday mistakenly seized 101,600 facemasks gifted by a branch of the Red Cross in eastern China to a Chinese community in Italy. Although Czech officials apologized for the mix-up, the Italian newspaper La Repubblica on Sunday published a bogus article claiming the Czech state had “stolen” that shipment – and…

> --- My comment is that our goverment officials or those policemans are probably stupid... Or they thought "better safe than sorry", given that smugglers aren't stupid and you can't just believe it was sent by Red Cross just because the courier says so. If anything, I'd ask why La Repubblica published a bogus article.

>If anything, I'd ask why La Repubblica published a bogus article.

Seasons come and go, but click bait is eternal

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#172

Post by ardy42 »

0x38B wrote: post #165
ceejayoz wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're making their own. Sometimes, quite stylishly: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/president-slovakia-coronaviru...

Wow, that same article says "As a reminder, you don’t need to wear a mask unless you are sick"...

> "As a reminder, you don’t need to wear a mask unless you are sick"...

But of course, you may not know that you're sick... so wear a mask.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#173

Post by svara »

supdatecron wrote: post #120
mcsb4 wrote: post #21

Again another article that doesn't even mention the use of masks and hand sanitizer. The cost of the epidemic now goes into the trillions, self-made cotton masks are cheap compared to the economic damage. They can be disinfected in boiling water and if everybody uses them they will help to stop the spreading of the virus. In all the countries mentioned in the article people wear masks when in public, often just again…

There was a study that showed cotton masks can actually be worse. A medical person showed me the other day, I’ll have to ask for the link

Probably the MacIntyre et al. paper. It's being misinterpreted everywhere in this very misleading fashion. See this blog MacIntyre wrote to clarify this: https://iser.med.unsw.edu.au/blog/impact-ppe-shortages-healt...

People misrepresenting this study are doing tremendous harm, it has to stop.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#174

Post by hristov »

mcsb4 wrote: post #21

Again another article that doesn't even mention the use of masks and hand sanitizer. The cost of the epidemic now goes into the trillions, self-made cotton masks are cheap compared to the economic damage. They can be disinfected in boiling water and if everybody uses them they will help to stop the spreading of the virus. In all the countries mentioned in the article people wear masks when in public, often just again…

The problem with use of masks in the US is that we do not have enough masks and we need them all for health care workers. If there aren't enough masks for health care workers, doctors and nurses will stop coming to work people won't be able to get medical attention the death rate will sky rocket because of lack of simple medical procedures, there will be panic in the streets, etc.

For this reason our media seems to be under strict orders to de-emphasize masks and just talk about distancing and hand washing.

It is very regrettable that we have a completely incompetent federal government that did not stock up on masks even though they had plenty of warning but these are the facts. If we ever make enough masks so that all the health care workers are covered, then yes all civilians should wear masks. I am sure then the media will start talking about masks.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#175

Post by sct202 »

Etheryte wrote: post #166
robocat wrote: post #7

Another effing article that completely ignores Taiwan... I’m no taiwanophile, but why is it that a first-world democracy with a successful strategy against Covid is being completely ignored by media? https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762689 Taiwan has huge flows of Chinese people, yet no outbreak. Maybe it’s a good thing they are not recognised by the WHO?

I hadn't heard about this, but that's fairly baffling. According to Johns Hopkins [1], Taiwan has ~300 confirmed cases at a population of 23M+. I'm not sure how accurate nor reliable the numbers are, but if anywhere near true, that's a herculean effort with great results. Of course, the measures outlined in the article you linked didn't come out of thin air, but are the result of massive cooperation and work. [1] htt…

Taiwan's government has been pretty open, since the government in power has been trying to contrast themselves from China and HK's governments which have issues with transparency. They have an English status page https://www.cdc.gov.tw/en for results. They're also reporting the origin of the imported cases.

Edit: Taiwan's case count is also low enough that they're still reporting updates using confirmed case numbers to track the spread from different cases.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#176

Post by casperc »

kijin wrote: post #55
mcsb4 wrote: post #21

Again another article that doesn't even mention the use of masks and hand sanitizer. The cost of the epidemic now goes into the trillions, self-made cotton masks are cheap compared to the economic damage. They can be disinfected in boiling water and if everybody uses them they will help to stop the spreading of the virus. In all the countries mentioned in the article people wear masks when in public, often just again…

To add a bit more data to your assertion, most of the 9,000 cases in South Korea can be traced to a handful of gatherings where people didn't wear masks. First there was the cult in Daegu, where believers are not allowed to cover their faces because apparently their god can't see through fabric. Mass infections also occurred in churches where people took off their masks to eat or sing together, or tried to "sanitize"…

Any chance you have some sources on this? There a lot of talking around the subject of masks, but I don't have any articles or similar to show people when discussing this.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#177

Post by sp332 »

pgrote wrote: post #146

"South Korea has used data from surveillance cameras, cellphones and credit card transactions to map the social connections of suspected cases. " None of these things are available to health departments in the United States unless someone voluntarily allows it. The United States has a weak federal containment strategy when it comes to pandemics since most of the decision making is left to Governors. Louisiana allowed…

Every cell phone user has to be tracked so the cell network knows how to route their calls. Result: https://twitter.com/TectonixGEO/status/1242628347034767361 (edited for better link)

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#178

Post by DoofusOfDeath »

m23khan wrote: post #169

All countries which the rest of the World relies on production of masks, gloves, plastic items, electronics, medical equipment have done well. The rest of World which includes once capable nations (who have now outsourced everything and now don't have capacity to produce even bandages for their population) is now screwed. Lesson learnt: Self reliance is key.

> Self reliance is key.

I'm not a student of politics, but I wonder if self-reliance also makes a country more willing to start unnecessary wars.

If so, I'd wonder which strategy has a higher death count.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#179

Post by ardy42 »

largespoon wrote: post #130
Kiro wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that work when it's impossible to buy masks anywhere?

Try aliexepress

> Try aliexepress

I'd be surprised if that worked at all. At least one Chinese ecommerce website is preventing foreign IPs from even viewing item listings for masks. When you try to view the item from the search results, it gives you an error saying something like export is prohibited.

Also China has pretty much shut down air travel to the country to prevent "imported cases," so air freight capacity from is greatly reduced: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/world/asia/china-virus-tr...:

> The halt to almost all international passenger flights in and out of China will make it even harder for other countries to import N95 respirators, disposable surgical masks and other personal protection gear from China for their own doctors and nurses. About half the world’s airfreight typically moves in the bellies of passenger aircraft, while the rest travels aboard air freighters.

> Previous, large-scale cancellations of passenger air services to China have already created an acute shortage of air cargo capacity over the past two weeks.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#180

Post by catalogia »

h91wka wrote: post #149
cyphar wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Avoiding mask shortages is a noble goal (note that you're agreeing with me here -- mass-producing masks would also have avoided shortages). Whether or not the method employed was ethical or not is a separate question (and I agree with you that it was not because of how short-sighted it was).

> note that you're agreeing with me here I am not. My point is that solving the problem of mask shortage by allowing the infection to spread at full speed is like setting your home on fire to deal with a clogged pipe.

To say that somebody had a "noble goal" is to state that their intentions were good, not malicious. That is not the same as being correct. You are pointing out that they were shortsighted fools who did more damage than good, which I agree with, but that's not incompatible with having good intentions.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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