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How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

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Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#161

Post by [deleted] »

rjzzleep wrote: post #96
kstenerud wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the data here [1] (desktop edition because the mobile edition doesn't have drill down), you can see that all countries (including Asian) are following the same pattern in the "daily increase" graph (click a country on the left to see its data). The only outliers are China and South Korea (flatline), and Japan (flattened curve). So while masks may have some effect, it hasn't been enough to give differen…

Yeah, except you happily disregard the fact that a lot of asian countries including china have reimported cases mostly from Europe and the US. I'm pretty curious how this plays out in those countries.

[deleted]

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#162

Post by ceejayoz »

csomar wrote: post #24
robocat wrote: post #7

Another effing article that completely ignores Taiwan... I’m no taiwanophile, but why is it that a first-world democracy with a successful strategy against Covid is being completely ignored by media? https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762689 Taiwan has huge flows of Chinese people, yet no outbreak. Maybe it’s a good thing they are not recognised by the WHO?

Another one is Hong Kong. They are tightly packed in a small geographic space, have an active border with China (not sure about it now), and a highly trafficked airport.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/asia/hong-kong-coronavirus-qu...

> Now, however, Hong Kong is providing a very different object lesson -- what happens when you let your guard down too soon. The number of confirmed cases has almost doubled in the past week, with many imported from overseas, as Hong Kong residents who had left -- either to work or study abroad, or to seek safety when the city seemed destined for a major outbreak earlier this year -- return, bringing the virus back with them.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#163

Post by odshoifsdhfs »

bawolff wrote: post #150
odshoifsdhfs wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because pretty much all of Europe did the same so it isn't exclusive to USA? NY did almost as many tests in a day as some european countries have done total. Of course they are going to have a spike in cases. No-one believe (in Europe at least) that the number of cases are the truth, and we pretty much know that a lot of people aren't being tests. Portugal until 2 days ago was rejecting tests still of people that had…

I don't see how "other people screwed up too" is a counter argument to my argument that "usa is different from every country in the world and thus its impossible to do things right" is bullshit. They're two completely different claims. It is difficult to compare reported cases across countries, and certainly there are many countries that have dropped the ball (Iran especially comes to mind). At the risk of sounding u…

I agree. But even with deaths will be tricky. Some countries define any death that tests positive as a COVID death, while others only mark it as so if no other more pressing co-morbilities are found.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#164

Post by RedBeetDeadpool »

throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #35
mcsb4 wrote: post #21

Again another article that doesn't even mention the use of masks and hand sanitizer. The cost of the epidemic now goes into the trillions, self-made cotton masks are cheap compared to the economic damage. They can be disinfected in boiling water and if everybody uses them they will help to stop the spreading of the virus. In all the countries mentioned in the article people wear masks when in public, often just again…

I've read repeatedly (and heard on the radio several times) that wearing a mask if YOU are infected will help protect other people, but if you are not infected then it has no known protective effect ie. is not thought to be any more protective than not wearing one. Do you have any evidence to back up you talk of masks? (And if YOU are infected you should not be out anyway) Edit: I was thinking of non-medical situatio…

So I was in agreement with this, and the science is that yes it only helps in containing the infection if the person infected is wearing the mask.

However, if healthy people aren't wearing the masks, and only the unhealthy are, then the unhealthy don't want to signal they are unhealthy so they don't either. A huge part of getting the infected to wear masks is to get the healthy to wear masks so the infected don't put a huge label on themselves that indicates: "diseased", "corrupted", "infectious", "frail", "unclean" etc.

Logic says one thing, but people are not logical like machines.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#165

Post by 0x38B »

ceejayoz wrote: post #153
Kiro wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that work when it's impossible to buy masks anywhere?

They're making their own. Sometimes, quite stylishly: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/president-slovakia-coronaviru...

Wow, that same article says "As a reminder, you don’t need to wear a mask unless you are sick"...

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#166

Post by Etheryte »

robocat wrote: post #7

Another effing article that completely ignores Taiwan... I’m no taiwanophile, but why is it that a first-world democracy with a successful strategy against Covid is being completely ignored by media? https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762689 Taiwan has huge flows of Chinese people, yet no outbreak. Maybe it’s a good thing they are not recognised by the WHO?

I hadn't heard about this, but that's fairly baffling. According to Johns Hopkins [1], Taiwan has ~300 confirmed cases at a population of 23M+. I'm not sure how accurate nor reliable the numbers are, but if anywhere near true, that's a herculean effort with great results. Of course, the measures outlined in the article you linked didn't come out of thin air, but are the result of massive cooperation and work.

[1] https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#167

Post by Bartweiss »

kstenerud wrote: post #89
mcsb4 wrote: post #21

Again another article that doesn't even mention the use of masks and hand sanitizer. The cost of the epidemic now goes into the trillions, self-made cotton masks are cheap compared to the economic damage. They can be disinfected in boiling water and if everybody uses them they will help to stop the spreading of the virus. In all the countries mentioned in the article people wear masks when in public, often just again…

If you look at the data here [1] (desktop edition because the mobile edition doesn't have drill down), you can see that all countries (including Asian) are following the same pattern in the "daily increase" graph (click a country on the left to see its data). The only outliers are China and South Korea (flatline), and Japan (flattened curve). So while masks may have some effect, it hasn't been enough to give differen…

Wait, which countries are we referencing outside of those three?

Thailand looks straightforwardly exponential so far and has fairly heavy mask use, agreed. But Singapore, Taiwan, and arguably Malaysia seem too early to call: they're still plausibly on either of a European curve or South Korea's ramp-then-flatline.

Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Mongolia, and Burma all seem to be below the line for meaningful data. And Hong Kong isn't broken out. So I guess my questions are: do Indonesia and the Philipines have "mask cultures" to a level comparable to South Korea and Japan, and are their testing regimes wide enough to rely on those curves?

I don't know the answer to that. And I agree that the "masks work" graph/meme circulating is questionable. But unless I'm missing something/somewhere, this data just looks like "too soon to call"?

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#168

Post by basilgohar »

The discussions in these threads are just so demonstrative of the erosion of trust that now exists between the lay people and the experts of society, and even amongst experts themselves.

Fake news, profit motives, political expediency, political correctness, and so many other social factors have made this a real CF for anyone trying to make sense of this and genuinely do the right thing.

I am sorry if I don't have anything positive to contribute, I'm just so disappointed in the state of affairs right now and how selfish forces have coopted the means of causing positive, effective action.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#169

Post by m23khan »

All countries which the rest of the World relies on production of masks, gloves, plastic items, electronics, medical equipment have done well.

The rest of World which includes once capable nations (who have now outsourced everything and now don't have capacity to produce even bandages for their population) is now screwed.

Lesson learnt: Self reliance is key.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#170

Post by loudmax »

billfruit wrote: post #160
robocat wrote: post #7

Another effing article that completely ignores Taiwan... I’m no taiwanophile, but why is it that a first-world democracy with a successful strategy against Covid is being completely ignored by media? https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762689 Taiwan has huge flows of Chinese people, yet no outbreak. Maybe it’s a good thing they are not recognised by the WHO?

Perhaps, because the article is about countries who have been able to kind of contain the disease without resorting to drastic measures?

Not only are businesses open in Taiwan, it is one of the few countries where the schools are still open. Taiwan immediately began targeted testing, then contact tracing and quarantining suspected cases. The government distributed disposable surgical masks and people commonly wear masks in any public area. Some supply chains from China are disrupted, and the Computex trade show may yet be cancelled or disabled. Otherwise the economy in Taiwan is in motion.

These steps are more drastic than the "do nothing" approach we saw from some Western governments in the early days, but far less drastic that what those governments have had to resort to because they dropped the ball at the outset.

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