How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down • Hacker News Board

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#141

Post by JumpCrisscross » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 1:56 PM UTC

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #92

robjan wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not true. Hong Kong has its own government. Yes, the government collaborates with China but we have a separate legal system and are treated as a separate country for customs and immigration purposes.

> We have a separate legal system and are treated as a separate country for customs and immigration purposes. Of course Hong Kong has its own legal system and maintains its own customs and immigrations. However, mass epidemological response is carried out in accordance with the demands of mainland China, and so it is no surprise that Hong Kong is not being distinguished from mainland China as the OP expected.

> mass epidemological response is carried out in accordance with the demands of mainland China

Hong Kong seemed to have its own strategy, which makes sense, since it’s culturally unique to Beijing. Also of note, when Beijing published infection statistics, it excluded Hong Kong.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#142

Post by aneutron » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 1:56 PM UTC

rfrey wrote: post #108

rat9988 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does he have to? You can do your research on internet nowadays and be just as well informed as him.

A good faith interpretation of aneutron's comment is that they heard this report on Reuters; saw the author is from the Czech Republic and thought it was a good opportunity to find out about "local news" on the issue to get a different perspective. Agree it sounded confrontational, but it probably wasn't.

You are correct. There are generally some "hidden" fact. Like some news outlets try to run the story as something that it isn't. It was not confrontational at all.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#143

Post by slantyyz » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 2:00 PM UTC

claudeganon wrote: post #111

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about protecting you from other people, it's about protecting other people from you. Many people are asymptomatic or very mildly sick, yet are able to infect other people. When you cough or wipe your nose, you risk infecting other people. The cheap mask prevents you from touching your face as much and catches heavier particles that can't curve around the bends of the facemask as easily like water and mucus.

No, it actually does protect you, just not as effectively as N-95s. That’s why hospitals are seeking out donations of homemade masks right now. “The masks don’t do anything” story was just something floated around to prevent runs on hospital supplies. A better strategy would’ve have been to say “everyone make and wear your own masks and it will afford us some additional amount of protection.”

Dr Michael Lin, the author of that PDF on COVID that was posted here a while ago had this to say:

"A T-shirt is 79% as effective as a surgical mask. So if someone is coughing next to you and you can't escape, breathe through your shirt sleeve. Any filtration is better than none."

[1] https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1241052444798279680

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#144

Post by mantas » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 2:04 PM UTC

brutt wrote: post #123

mantas wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what is posted in our local media. I'm not sure if it comes from local gov agencies or WHO or something else. FFP2 / N95 respirators - 90-something percent, medical "blue" masks - 80 percent, home-made piece-of-cloth style ~ 50%. Wearing sunglasses is encouraged too. Both to stop the load if someone sneezes at you and discourage from touching your eyes.

N95 - 95% at least. Medical mask - 96,4%. Home made mask - 60-96% (depends on cloth and sewing). https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258525804_Testing_t...

Maybe you and I have different medical masks in mind? I was talking about masks like this:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0080/6830/0851/products/6_...

https://www.123rf.com/photo_138981777_stock-vector-person-we...

https://phonetub.com/products/100-disposable-face-surgical-m...

The main problem with blue masks and home made is that they tend to get wet from breath and their effectiveness go down the drain.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#145

Post by rkachowski » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 2:06 PM UTC

danmaz74 wrote: post #125

Roritharr wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German resident here, our chief virologist that everyone listens to, Christian Drosten, was firmly against mask usage in the common population, until just now, the RKI was similarly unhelpful when communicating advice for the disease. The population is completely confused and feel righteous anger now telling people off when they wear professional (medical disposable, or ffp3/n95) masks to go shopping or elsewhere. It…

I don't know about that expert, but the reason I usually hear about not using masks is so that health professionals could get them - ie, the problem is that supply isn't currently enough for everybody, and we should prioritise those for which it's most helpful.

This is one message that has me really confused. Why are masks being sold to the general public if this is the case? It's as if manufacturers and suppliers are helpless but to profit from public demand and the fault is a personal moral failure on behalf of everyone that wants to buy a mask for their own use. How can medical supplies be interrupted by public usage? Are doctors expected to swing past a pharmacy on the way to work and stock up on the supplies they need?

And then in many Asian cultures it's considered a moral failure to not wear a mask in these times, yet hospitals function. This problem clearly isn't universal, or inherent in capitalist functioning.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#146

Post by pgrote » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 2:06 PM UTC

"South Korea has used data from surveillance cameras, cellphones and credit card transactions to map the social connections of suspected cases. "

None of these things are available to health departments in the United States unless someone voluntarily allows it.

The United States has a weak federal containment strategy when it comes to pandemics since most of the decision making is left to Governors. Louisiana allowed Mardi Gras. Florida didn't issue guidance on their beaches until most of spring break was over. One state next to another such as Illinois and Missouri have vastly different mandates.

The United States lost the battle of containment. The only thing left is the war to not overwhelm the medical system.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#147

Post by leguminous » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 2:08 PM UTC

mcsb4 wrote: post #21

Again another article that doesn't even mention the use of masks and hand sanitizer. The cost of the epidemic now goes into the trillions, self-made cotton masks are cheap compared to the economic damage. They can be disinfected in boiling water and if everybody uses them they will help to stop the spreading of the virus. In all the countries mentioned in the article people wear masks when in public, often just again…

The doctors in my fiancée's department (ophthalmology and optometry at a major state university) have been officially prohibited from wearing masks, even if they provided a mask themselves. They are right in front of all of their patients' faces.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#148

Post by standardUser » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 2:10 PM UTC

austhrow743 wrote: post #59

adventured wrote: post #6

So have Thailand, the Philippines and Indonesia (440 million people). They've all had fewer cases than Luxembourg so far. I've yet to see a good explanation for it, other than maybe the premise about seasonal temps and humidity (northern vs southern hemisphere). There's no evidence they're massively lying about their numbers (which would show up in the form of a demolished hospital system and thousands dead of pneumo…

All three are barely testing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_testing There's your explanation right there.

"Not testing" cannot hide thousands of deaths and overwhelmed hospitals. For a few weeks, sure, but we're past that window now in most nations.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#149

Post by h91wka » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 2:11 PM UTC

cyphar wrote: post #140

h91wka wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This was a coordinated (dare I say "propaganda") campaign by US and other government officials in order to try to avoid mask shortages[1]. A noble goal, sure -- but the net result is that people are now misinformed about the efficacy of masks. There's nothing noble about it. This is extremely short-sighted. What is easier to solve, shortage of masks, or shortage of ICU beds and medical personnel? I would imagine th…

Avoiding mask shortages is a noble goal (note that you're agreeing with me here -- mass-producing masks would also have avoided shortages). Whether or not the method employed was ethical or not is a separate question (and I agree with you that it was not because of how short-sighted it was).

> note that you're agreeing with me here

I am not. My point is that solving the problem of mask shortage by allowing the infection to spread at full speed is like setting your home on fire to deal with a clogged pipe.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#150

Post by bawolff » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 2:14 PM UTC

odshoifsdhfs wrote: post #113

bawolff wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it anytime usa screws up its because its a diverse nation that's different from all the other nations? Maybe sometimes the USA is just incompetent and usually it can get away with being incompetent without consequence because nobody wants to poke the 800lb gorilla, but sometimes consequences do happen.

Because pretty much all of Europe did the same so it isn't exclusive to USA? NY did almost as many tests in a day as some european countries have done total. Of course they are going to have a spike in cases. No-one believe (in Europe at least) that the number of cases are the truth, and we pretty much know that a lot of people aren't being tests. Portugal until 2 days ago was rejecting tests still of people that had…

I don't see how "other people screwed up too" is a counter argument to my argument that "usa is different from every country in the world and thus its impossible to do things right" is bullshit. They're two completely different claims.

It is difficult to compare reported cases across countries, and certainly there are many countries that have dropped the ball (Iran especially comes to mind). At the risk of sounding unfeeling, a clearer picture will probably emerge once the deaths start rolling in, since dying is a very binary state and less subject to measurement bias due to gov (in)action.