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Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

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Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#211

Post by [deleted] »

protomyth wrote: post #145
flink wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

re: 2) I can't speak for all developers, but I generally try to work with the mantra of "first make it work, then make it work well and then make it pretty or fast (depending on what the project is)". I guess that I am a little guilty of thinking of "design" as mostly eye candy and nice-to-have (when in reality, some parts of design probably should be part of making it work well). But I also abhor applications that h…

I think some of the contention comes in the statement "first make it work, then make it work well and then make it pretty or fast (depending on what the project is)" and the belief that without good design in the first place it doesn't really work. Leaving design till the end means it won't really have a positive impact on the use of the software.

[deleted]

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#212

Post by jbk »

hamai wrote: post #156
jbk wrote: post #53

I really wish I knew how to get great designers... VLC is a product, that is widely used, usable (not the mac version, though), but it is extremely ugly. It is quite hard to get designers to help us (redesigning all the buttons for example) for quite many reasons. The biggest reason is that we don't speak the same language. Many designers don't understand the criticism that usually comes around with each modification…

I like VLC "ugliness". I think it's more functional than some more elaborated interfaces that end up looking like scene keygens.

See my original post: prettiness and usability are 2 different things :D

And yes, too many people forget usability for prettiness.

VLC is usable (not all parts, true) but isn't beautiful.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#213

Post by [deleted] »

mgunes wrote: post #121
rorrr wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Design IS optional and isn't as is important as you make it sound. Look at craigslist, hacker news, reddit.

All three are very deliberately designed the way they are, and function well thanks to those designs. Good design is often "as little design as possible", as Dieter Rams' final principle for good design goes; avoiding overdesign is a merit, not a deficiency.

[deleted]

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#214

Post by flink »

recurrie wrote: post #174
flink wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting question. I also wonder how you would get designers to start open source projects without getting the opposite of a "developer-centric" project where developers are the second class citizens. Can you (or others) elaborate a bit more on what a place where a designer could expect to create really great work would look like? Is it more of a personal aesthetic thing (something that is personally int…

That a tough one - it's always easier to identify a problem than craft a solution. Here's a shot: * Projects should include screenshots or other visuals (no matter what their state of completion) on project pages. Browsing the usual Github page shows no visuals at all. Not every project is going to be heavily visually oriented, but most of the project pages I see look like a giant "Designers not wanted" sign. * An en…

Yeah, I know what you mean about solutions. Actually solving the problem at hand is a whole different world than finding the problem.

I know that I've been guilty of not making/updating screenshots very frequently - they tend to be a pain. Something to keep in mind for the future, though.

A collaborative design environment is a hard one. I've found it really useful for code in the past but as you said, that doesn't help a whole lot on the design front. The only practical thing I can think of at the moment is sending links to static images back and forth over chat, but that doesn't get over the barrier to entry on chat.

The only other things I can think of there would be screencasting (which usually costs money and tends to be a little more one-way) and VNC but that requires a lot more trust than I have for strangers (or than I would expect them to have for me).

Team structure might be a hard one. I can't speak for all developers but I generally don't like having a formal team structure if it can be avoided. Do you think that the role part is important or just discrete, specific tasks? If you were thinking of more of a control thing, that might be even harder. Unless I'm the only developer, I generally don't expect to have much control over a specific area. Then again, I also wouldn't expect people to be jerks and completely change something I did without at least talking about it first.

As far as rapid prototypes for web applications go, I LOVE wicket (http://wicket.apache.org/) because your templates are pretty much CSS and HTML (none of that pseudo-code in templates crap) and you have pretty much complete control over your javascript. You can mock up an entire site in HTML and only need minimal changes to get it working with backend code.

I don't have as much experience with desktop applications but I wonder if rough HTML/CSS might also work for the interactive parts. I'd have to think about that one and it might be an excuse to try mocking up a desktop app I've been thinking about.

I don't know if you'd be interested or if it would work, but I'd be up for at least talking about less uncertain ways to get your students involved in open source.

I have a couple of ideas for projects that I'd love to get design help on as long as I'm not completely left out of the design loop. Getting more people (and especially non-coders) involved in open source and helping in education would be bonuses.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#215

Post by SolarUpNote »

kevinburke wrote: post #120
rorrr wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Design IS optional and isn't as is important as you make it sound. Look at craigslist, hacker news, reddit.

I disagree - those sites have great designs, they're just not pretty. There are a million different ways people use Craigslist so they put a million different links on the homepage to get as many areas as possible within one click of the mouse. HN and Reddit support thriving communities of non-assholes - look at how many sites with "better designs" have tards for community members. HN in particular may purposely be d…

Reddit is designed perfectly. Almost everything on the page is worth caring about.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#216

Post by andyford »

timdorr wrote: post #146
rorrr wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Design IS optional and isn't as is important as you make it sound. Look at craigslist, hacker news, reddit.

If the design is optional, why does Reddit have an 80k CSS file and Craigslist have a 14k one? (Admittedly, HN has a very tiny amount of design). Design isn't necessarily about embellishment, but aesthetic choices. Good typography and color scheme choices don't have to be paired with elaborate graphics for a design to be good. But more to the point of what you're saying, design is NOT optional. It is the essence of h…

"iOS is far less usable and powerful than Android, but people like it more because it's visually pleasing."

I'd argue that iOS is far more usable than Android in addition to being visually pleasing.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#217

Post by joe_the_user »

rue wrote: post #36
jacobolus wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re missing the point. If an open-source project treated a programmer with the same lack of respect, I wouldn’t expect any different a response. There’s no “contract” that says I have to volunteer my time to someone who won’t even appreciate the donation. On the other hand, I’m not sure it’s fair to indict all open-source projects based on one side of a single story. I’d be interested to hear more of the details i…

I understand what you're saying…but as an open-source contributor I certainly expect that my code can be modified for various reasons. I guess a “work of art” would feel more personal, and (unless given a tight spec of elements that must be included) is more of a candidate for either rejection or admission as-is. For changes I'd certainly expect a request “can you add a wizard hat on the ninja?” rather than someone m…

The problem is that coders and the designers are in a different world.

If contributed code to a project, I'd expect another coder who knew what they were doing to change it.

But what happened is more as if someone contributed code and then, say, a tech writer changed so it wouldn't compile and then checked the code in.

I suspect it's not so much that a designer want to have their design never change. Rather, they want someone reasonably competent change it. The programmer often doesn't even know that they've "broken" the design by changing a few pixels.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#218

Post by flink »

FiddlerClamp wrote: post #183
tzs wrote: post #88

The same question could be asked about documentation writers. Most of the reasons given here as to why it is hard to get designers apply to documentation writers, too. For open source games, the same question could also be asked for music composers, and again most of the same answers apply. It might better to ask why is it so easy to get coders to contribute.

Yes - for example I'd love to keep up my tech writing and marcomm skills by contributing to open source projects, but I have no idea where to start.

I don't know if this is what you were looking for, but one option would be the Fedora project.

General: http://fedoraproject.org/en/join-fedora

Specific Areas: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join#Content_Writer https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join#Designer

One of the proposed long term goals (still going through the approval process) for the Fedora project is to lower the barrier of entry for new members (Not a great link but one of the better ones that I could find: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Board_meeting_2010-12...)

DISCLOSURE: I do work for Red Hat on the Fedora project but my interest in open source is also personal. I suggested this because it seemed appropriate and I'm familiar with it.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#219

Post by sfled »

Seems like by "designers" it means you would like contributions from "graphic designers", yeah?

Just my humble, but designers, like programmers, can grow as their knowledge and experience encompasses more techniques. From drawing to composition to color theory to typography to XHTML to CSS to Javascript to PHP to Perl to ASP.NET/C# etc, et, al.

So what kind of designer were you looking for?

BTW, from a visual design point of view, the classic education is to first use a monospace typeface at a single size, then use other typefaces and multiple fonts and weights, then get to the fancy curves and Photoshop bullshit. But honestly if the designer couldn't make it work in Courier, they may want to consider another career.

So there you go. Did you want gratuitous eye candy or did you want a talented and educated artist who also knew booleans, conditionals and how to hit up a database?

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#220

Post by ThomPete »

Corrado wrote: post #197
ThomPete wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So to speak in your language look at the pink lines here: http://www.000fff.org/uploads/code_alignment.png Alignment is everywhere. When you start analyzing interfaces you will often find that great interface design attempts to have as few alignment lines as possible. Obviously text on a line is alignment too (horisontal). And then there is optical alignment which is especially important in typography.

You want to have as few alignment lines as possible? I would think that aligning elements (buttons, form fields, etc.) would be a good thing. Of course, I'm a developer so that may be my problem. :)

This is what it mean:

http://brandonwalkin.com/blog/images/LightroomVsExpressionBl...

This time not from my own blog but from Brandon Walkins

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