Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

forrst.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 251 posts

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#171

Post by wccrawford »

perlgeek wrote: post #22
wccrawford wrote: post #3

Pay them. Don't -ever- expect anyone to contribute for free. When they do, treat them special instead of taking them for granted. That seems like common sense, but that's what I see all the time when it comes to programming projects, open source or not.

> Don't -ever- expect anyone to contribute for free. When they do, treat them special instead of taking them for granted. Right, but apply the same measure to developers too. We often get into the habit of taking some contributor's work for granted, be we shouldn't. Every patch should be treated with the same respect and gratitude. If it's somebody's seven-hundredth patch, you don't have to say "thank you" for every…

While I don't think you should thank for them every patch directly, I think there should be praise for their work occasionally.

WINE's release emails always specified who did what, and that's not quite a 'thank you' but it's definitely more acknowledgement than I sometimes see.

It doesn't even have to be the project leader or other developers doing the praising. A proper bug reporting system will give the users a chance to give that praise as well, thought the leader/developers should also be thankful for the contributions.

It's not easy, and I'm not trying to say it is, but it needs more attention.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#172

Post by AaronChampagne »

kstenerud wrote: post #112
benjash wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also. In the UK at least, get designers get paid a lot less. The work they do get paid to do is restrictive and dull. Designers are generally driven by the desire to create and make 'pretty' things. Most spend all day in meetings discussing why that shade of pink isn't good for the 99th design iteration of the same icon. So I highly doubt they would rush to do this kind of work for free. Most design work open source…

Counterpoint: Many open source contributors don't find satisfaction in their day jobs. The work they get paid to do is restrictive and dull. Developers are generally driven by the desire to create 'cool' things. Many spend all day in meetings discussing why that API extension isn't good for the 99th design iteration for customer X. And yet many rush to do this kind of work for free. Lots of work open source projects…

As a designer I like your counterpoint. If I could work with developers like you're describing I'd be interested. I'm nervous about offering help to a project though, because I'm getting the impression that developers are expected to navigate the community solo and I don't know if I can learn the ropes of the community while making a good design for a project.

I've been thinking that maybe a buddy-system might be appropriate for attracting designers.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#173

Post by AaronChampagne »

endergen wrote: post #169

I believe it's because open source projects are designed to be modular. Design on the other hand is holistic. So it's hard to integrate design into an existing project unless it's an open source project such as a CRM where basically designers can make nice skins of the entire project.

Fuck that. Good design IS modular design. If your designer isn't following best practices like modular design then they are NOT good designers. Learning to work in non-destructive modular ways was one of the most important lessons for me when I transitioned from art to design.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#174

Post by recurrie »

flink wrote: post #126
recurrie wrote: post #90

Reframe the question: How would you get designers to start open source projects? The open source world is pretty much structured around serving the needs of those who can code. In the field I work in, designers and developers have equal standing, and need to create a middle ground of shared workflow, technology and design processes that balance development and design. In most open source projects, there are too many…

That's an interesting question. I also wonder how you would get designers to start open source projects without getting the opposite of a "developer-centric" project where developers are the second class citizens. Can you (or others) elaborate a bit more on what a place where a designer could expect to create really great work would look like? Is it more of a personal aesthetic thing (something that is personally int…

That a tough one - it's always easier to identify a problem than craft a solution. Here's a shot:

* Projects should include screenshots or other visuals (no matter what their state of completion) on project pages. Browsing the usual Github page shows no visuals at all. Not every project is going to be heavily visually oriented, but most of the project pages I see look like a giant "Designers not wanted" sign.

* An environment where design can happen collaboratively. The "design thinking" ethos requires understanding what the problem is before trying to solve it. To really involve designers, some sort of sandbox where ideas can be expressed as something other than code, feature requests, bug fixes or "64x64px.png goes here." Would be ideal - a way to say "I see this working like this..." in a way a visual designer can express. Lots of discussion happens via chat, etc, but pretty hard to access if you're already feeling excluded.

* Something recognizable as a team structure. If projects need a designer, a project page noting an unfilled slot on the team would be ideal, along with some details. Icon designer? UX specialist? Copywriter? What do you need?

* Integrating rapid prototyping tools for design exploration. One of the tough tasks I find in interaction design is to get a feel for how a complex system is going to work without building it. I've see everything from Flash to Filemaker Pro used to build working models, to then be built out in another tool. Photoshop comps are great, but not a great way to simulate a lot of complex interaction models. If designers and developers are going to speak the same language, it's probably not going to be code.

I teach at a university of the visual arts, and I've often wondered about finding a way to engage students in open source projects, but to be honest, I've always been to fearful of what the outcome might be to really push this. My worry is that for a lot of developers, a logo and a few icons is all they are looking for. Fair enough, but not terribly attractive to the types of designers that projects really need.

Finally, designers need to understand what a big deal software is. You almost never see application design (web, desktop or mobile) represented in the big design award annuals, and the types of things that do get in tend to be gimmicky, Flash-driven web sites for consumer products.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#175

Post by joelrunyon »

The hard part here is the nature of the craft.

Developers have rules. Code has syntax. Everyone follows the same rules and code comes out the same. One developer can pick up where another left off. It's very clean cut. Designers are different. There are "rules" of design, but each designer is different and have their own styles. That's not a bad thing, but when you get multiple (hundreds, even) of different developers with styles and no "strict" rules of design, it can make for a very hodge-podge project that...well...looks like 100 different people designed it

[Not a designer or developer but I work with both and serve as a "translator" between the two]

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#176

Post by radley »

jbk wrote: post #81
zavulon wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> usable (not the mac version, though) Heh. Obviously as VLC's developer you know better, but FWIW I've been using VLC on Mac OS X extensively, as my primary video player. I don't think it's unusable, or ugly at all.. I can't be the only one, can I?

Well, to be honest, VLC on Mac has this 2 windows paradigm that is very complex to understand those days... I've been working with a designer to try to do this mockup: http://www.jbkempf.com/~jb/VLC_mac.png

I don't understand the move to one window. I don't think the confusion is due to two windows, but rather because your library window looks like a player by default.

There's a 90/10 rule - only put the stuff you use 90% of the time in the UI. The other 10% goes in the drop menu.

In the case of your mockup, I doubt people are EQing every movie they watch. They don't really use the library, so prev/next/loop/shuffle and lib are all unnecessary in a player view. I expect in most cases people use VLC to play a single video, something that a native player won't.

Further, your time display doesn't show total time - only position. Most players show current position and a total time/countdown toggle. The best include an end clock (i.e. your movie will finish @ 1:32am).

What new type of user are you trying to attract? Once you know that, it's pretty obvious what to do. Ping me if you wish to discuss (radley@ cloud.tv / vj.tv). I'm a big fan of VLC and build/design UI/UX & media players for a living...

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#177

Post by joelrunyon »

joelrunyon wrote: post #175

The hard part here is the nature of the craft. Developers have rules. Code has syntax. Everyone follows the same rules and code comes out the same. One developer can pick up where another left off. It's very clean cut. Designers are different. There are "rules" of design, but each designer is different and have their own styles. That's not a bad thing, but when you get multiple (hundreds, even) of different developer…

maybe the solution is a set of design rules for project/community/development that everyone agrees to.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#178

Post by idonthack »

mkr-hn wrote: post #96
nnutter wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not really seen any evidence of GIMP being that poor of a UI. The biggest complaint is the multi-window interface for which single-window mode is currently in alpha and should be out in a few months or so.

It's a little clumsy if you're working with two images on one screen (especially when drawing/painting with references). A single-window interface has a menu option that lets you tile them. I'll be happy when the single-window version is released.

most complaints about gimp's multi-window UI are really complaints about window management.

window management should be handled by the window manager, not by each application.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#179

Post by wtracy »

AaronChampagne wrote: post #161
vog wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, maybe we should make designers want to use Git. This might be not as crazy as it sounds, as I recently learned: A few weeks ago, there was a short presentation about Git, targeted at non-programmers such as graphics and web designers. After the presentation, one of the designers (who apparently already knew about Git) stood up and criticized the presenter for not going deeper into branches and auto…

Actually, this git thing does sound cool. You mean to tell me there's an easy way of tracing different versions of a design?

Git and similar tools are designed to track multiple revisions of a file. Imagine the history feature (undo/redo) from your favorite editor, but for saved files, and with the ability to point to two arbitrary versions and ask, "What changed between these?"

On top of this, Git added the ability to merge changes together automatically. Imagine that one person changed a bunch of stuff in the first paragraph in a document, and someone else changed a bunch of stuff in the second paragraph, and the computer could automatically merge those changes into one document.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#180

Post by jasonlynes »

OzzyB wrote: post #45

Easy, create a "Benevolent Designer For Life" title for your project, then assign to one very talented person. Designers are simply unable to work in committee as stated by others here...

Agree with this one. Try to start the project with a designer. Design is something best consulted from the get-go.
Post reply on HN