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Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

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Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#141

Post by neutronicus »

perlgeek wrote: post #14
pieter wrote: post #2

My girlfriend tried to design an icon for an open-source app she uses, but the experience hasn't been really great. I think the way developers in open-source projects communicate doesn't really work with designers. She sent the photoshop source file and a png to the mailing list, but was told to send in a patch instead, which meant she had to learn how to use git to check out the repository, add the icon to the repo,…

That experience sucks indeed. I guess there are two lessons to be learned: 1) try to lift the technical burden from the designer. If the designer sends a file as a mail attachment, just add it to a branch of your repo yourself (with permission, hopefully) 2) when programmers see a small bug in a piece of code, they often fix it. Don't assume you can and should do the same with designs. Talk to the designer.

Maybe also: have a designer high in the project hierarchy whose responsibility it is to merge design packages.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#142

Post by AaronChampagne »

pieter wrote: post #2

My girlfriend tried to design an icon for an open-source app she uses, but the experience hasn't been really great. I think the way developers in open-source projects communicate doesn't really work with designers. She sent the photoshop source file and a png to the mailing list, but was told to send in a patch instead, which meant she had to learn how to use git to check out the repository, add the icon to the repo,…

This would kill it for me. I've spent my whole adult life learning to use graphite and charcoal, oil paint and clay. Having my entire effort refused because I don't know what a GIT is just doesn't work for me.

Having communication barriers like this absolutely would stop me from participating. I have no problem with being asked to redesign a logo over and again. I would love to feel like I belonged to a community and that I mattered. But having a developer jack my work and screw it up because it was easier than asking me to do it would completely scare me away from open source projects.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#143

Post by johnthedebs »

I think the root issue preventing more designers from working on open source projects is that, unlike development, design doesn't improve when the work is distributed.

Development is modular – pieces can be added, removed, or changed out for other pieces. Several developers can work on the same project at the same time and not step on each others' toes (esp. thanks to modern version control). This works great with the open source model.

Design, on the other hand, benefits from being unified and consistent. The best-designed projects have one designer, or a small group of designers working together closely. This doesn't work well with open source at all.

This becomes pretty obvious when you compare Mac systems to Linux systems.

Until this issue is resolved (by, eg, open source projects bringing on dedicated designers) the symptoms are unlikely to go away.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#144

Post by reledi »

jbk wrote: post #53

I really wish I knew how to get great designers... VLC is a product, that is widely used, usable (not the mac version, though), but it is extremely ugly. It is quite hard to get designers to help us (redesigning all the buttons for example) for quite many reasons. The biggest reason is that we don't speak the same language. Many designers don't understand the criticism that usually comes around with each modification…

> Many designers don't understand the criticism that usually comes around with each modification in open source project. Many developers don't understand how to speak to designers in a polite way (they think they speak normally, but it isn't perceived as such).

Those are some great points, they're discussed in this book: http://producingoss.com/en/communications.html#writing-tone

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#145

Post by protomyth »

flink wrote: post #118
jrwoodruff wrote: post #95

During my day job I play the lone designer in an organization built from day one with only software engineers. I suspect the problems that I face there are similar to the problems faced by designers in OSS. 1. Communication. Developers use a completely different language than designers. If I come in talking about alignment, developers are thinking 'right left or center justified?' When developers start talking about…

re: 2) I can't speak for all developers, but I generally try to work with the mantra of "first make it work, then make it work well and then make it pretty or fast (depending on what the project is)". I guess that I am a little guilty of thinking of "design" as mostly eye candy and nice-to-have (when in reality, some parts of design probably should be part of making it work well). But I also abhor applications that h…

I think some of the contention comes in the statement "first make it work, then make it work well and then make it pretty or fast (depending on what the project is)" and the belief that without good design in the first place it doesn't really work. Leaving design till the end means it won't really have a positive impact on the use of the software.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#146

Post by timdorr »

rorrr wrote: post #115
jrwoodruff wrote: post #95

During my day job I play the lone designer in an organization built from day one with only software engineers. I suspect the problems that I face there are similar to the problems faced by designers in OSS. 1. Communication. Developers use a completely different language than designers. If I come in talking about alignment, developers are thinking 'right left or center justified?' When developers start talking about…

Design IS optional and isn't as is important as you make it sound. Look at craigslist, hacker news, reddit.

If the design is optional, why does Reddit have an 80k CSS file and Craigslist have a 14k one? (Admittedly, HN has a very tiny amount of design).

Design isn't necessarily about embellishment, but aesthetic choices. Good typography and color scheme choices don't have to be paired with elaborate graphics for a design to be good.

But more to the point of what you're saying, design is NOT optional. It is the essence of how people interact with your website/product. There are certainly some exceptions to the rule, but generally people flock to a more attractive product because it is attractive. Look at any Apple product for a perfect example of this. iOS is far less usable and powerful than Android, but people like it more because it's visually pleasing. OSS is never going to win unless it has that similar level of sex appeal in its products.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#147

Post by redsymbol »

ThomPete wrote: post #128
schwabacher wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the intrest of bi-lingual education could you explain what you mean when you come in talking about alignment? Developer here, and I would definitely be thinking 'right, left, center'?

So to speak in your language look at the pink lines here: http://www.000fff.org/uploads/code_alignment.png Alignment is everywhere. When you start analyzing interfaces you will often find that great interface design attempts to have as few alignment lines as possible. Obviously text on a line is alignment too (horisontal). And then there is optical alignment which is especially important in typography.

Thanks for this clear example and explanation!

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#148

Post by pontifexmaximus »

This whole discussion just makes me as a designer want to go and help some project.

As a developer, I've already helped a few opensource projects.

What's missing? A centralized location for designers to meet developers. github is unfortunately designer-unfriendly. It's developer oriented, and code-centric. Fixing github into having a design aspect will surely repair this.

I once tried to help out interpals.net. The usability of the site is non-existent, and the visual elements look like they were made by a four-year-old. Thus, I've come up with sketches and UI elements and gave it to the founder. He was amazed and seemed eager to work with me. At the end wanted someone more experienced. By that, he meant someone who can code, not only design. He wanted a developer. At the time I wasn't one.

Beggars can't be choosers. His site continues to be dead-ugly.

I really want to help anything because I need to exercise design as much as coding.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#149

Post by jt2190 »

rue wrote: post #97
texture wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other guy hit the nail on the head. Most developers aren't designers, and in fact they tend to think in ways that are the opposite of aesthetically pleasing. It's why there are so few developer/designers (I'm one of them). The problem with design is that it is something that is not easy, but it SEEMS easy, because everyone has an opinion, and they think it's just as valid as anyone else's, even a professional des…

For you and ErrantX, I think you're reading too much into my parallel: I was just replying to a statement made in the parent. Obviously I'll expect that someone making changes to my code is qualified to do so. It's presumably parallel for interactions between multiple designers on the same project – one can make reasoned changes to the other's work. In the described event, there clearly wasn't communication but we do…

Your "logo" example is too contrived. What is more typical is to get a design for something like a form, that has made no consideration for user interaction (space for error messages, error icons, disabling/enabling buttons, etc.) This is where user interface programmers really stand apart from everyone else... Their designs actually work.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#150

Post by quannum »

allenbina wrote: post #62
replicatorblog wrote: post #13

1. Ask for help - I'm a designer that reads HN everyday and I wouldn't know where to look if I wanted to participate in an open source project. Is there a list? The problem is most OS software aside from GIMP/Inkscape doesn't make its way in front of designers often. 2. Make it discrete - What needs to be designed? The entire UI and workflows? The application icon? The internal navigation glyphs? Redesigning an entir…

brilliant answer. Moreover, there is no GIT for designers made from the ground up (I'm envisioning a gui for past drafts). Also, there are no standards for schools of design. There is no professional course that teaches the basics of ergonomics for the web the same way architectural web development can be taught. Most of the people like myself just follow a few major blogs. I know many designers who would love to don…

SparkleShare aims to fill the 'git for designers' void by making using git more like using Dropbox. No URL to hand, sorry.
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