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Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

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Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#81

Post by jbk »

zavulon wrote: post #80
jbk wrote: post #53

I really wish I knew how to get great designers... VLC is a product, that is widely used, usable (not the mac version, though), but it is extremely ugly. It is quite hard to get designers to help us (redesigning all the buttons for example) for quite many reasons. The biggest reason is that we don't speak the same language. Many designers don't understand the criticism that usually comes around with each modification…

> usable (not the mac version, though) Heh. Obviously as VLC's developer you know better, but FWIW I've been using VLC on Mac OS X extensively, as my primary video player. I don't think it's unusable, or ugly at all.. I can't be the only one, can I?

Well, to be honest, VLC on Mac has this 2 windows paradigm that is very complex to understand those days...

I've been working with a designer to try to do this mockup: http://www.jbkempf.com/~jb/VLC_mac.png

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#82

Post by jbk »

abcd_f wrote: post #71
jbk wrote: post #53

I really wish I knew how to get great designers... VLC is a product, that is widely used, usable (not the mac version, though), but it is extremely ugly. It is quite hard to get designers to help us (redesigning all the buttons for example) for quite many reasons. The biggest reason is that we don't speak the same language. Many designers don't understand the criticism that usually comes around with each modification…

Great designers are in demand. Time is their most valuable asset, so in order to get a piece of this asset they must be offered a form of compensation. They clearly do not need to be designing for "would look great on your portfolio" nor they are likely to be enticed by the "gratitude of the masses". The only non-monetary compensation that works is to make them genuinely interested in helping -- and that if you think…

I hope you are wrong, but I am not sure :D

VLC is quite visible, but that isn't enough, I am afraid :D

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#83

Post by rue »

knowtheory wrote: post #43
rue wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand what you're saying…but as an open-source contributor I certainly expect that my code can be modified for various reasons. I guess a “work of art” would feel more personal, and (unless given a tight spec of elements that must be included) is more of a candidate for either rejection or admission as-is. For changes I'd certainly expect a request “can you add a wizard hat on the ninja?” rather than someone m…

Actually the whole mentality that this was just a work of art is the problem. When you do design for applications there are functional and conceptual components to the design. If people are taking your work and buggering up your intent, that's a problem, just the same way it is when someone takes code and alters its behavior without consideration for the code's intent. The experience the designer had, and this conver…

I don't disagree, and I don't see why you think I'd consider it a good idea to muck about with things without understanding the intent – but the perception of the intent (and its fitness for purpose) can vary. A work of art, in the sense I was using it, could be “intent realized”. A piece in its final form.

I won't speak to this particular anecdote; I've found making judgements on intents based on a vague second-hand retelling of a one-sided account isn't useful. It sounds like communication was a total failure, probably on both sides.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#84

Post by pnathan »

josegonzalez wrote: post #63
random42 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, maybe we should make designers want to use Git. I use Git, and its a wonderful piece of software craft indeed, but it does not have Windows/Mac clients, that designers often use, as their base OS. A decent usable frontend for Git, on platforms other than Linux too, needs to be developed, for it to be usable by designers. Edit - I meant to say officially supported frontend and support for other os…

You're quite wrong. GitX is available at https://github.com/brotherbard/gitx/downloads (Get the experimental branch) Git Tower is available at http://www.git-tower.com/ Textmate has a GIT Bundle at https://github.com/jcf/git-tmbundle (It's quite good, but maybe not for designers). And Giggle ( http://live.gnome.org/giggle ). Windows is the only OS lacking a good client, but I use GitX for Mac every day, as do the les…

Yes, I just picked up git for Windows, and it is atrociously unusable. Brutally atrocious. It's not like Windows is a popular operating system - git shouldn't support it as a first-class citizen. ;)

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#85

Post by sixtofour »

mnutt wrote: post #42
us wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree (btw, I'm not the one that downvoted you; I don't have that option). Why should I contribute to an open source project when I can do something like design a simple killer wordpress theme that may gain major adoption and use that as reference for my work than a single open source project catered to a single developers open source work that may or may not get used heavily. That or is o…

By designing a killer Wordpress theme, you are contributing to an open source project...

And maybe this is the nail that should be hit on the head.

WordPress is designed to easily accept design products like themes.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#86

Post by texture »

rue wrote: post #36
jacobolus wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re missing the point. If an open-source project treated a programmer with the same lack of respect, I wouldn’t expect any different a response. There’s no “contract” that says I have to volunteer my time to someone who won’t even appreciate the donation. On the other hand, I’m not sure it’s fair to indict all open-source projects based on one side of a single story. I’d be interested to hear more of the details i…

I understand what you're saying…but as an open-source contributor I certainly expect that my code can be modified for various reasons. I guess a “work of art” would feel more personal, and (unless given a tight spec of elements that must be included) is more of a candidate for either rejection or admission as-is. For changes I'd certainly expect a request “can you add a wizard hat on the ninja?” rather than someone m…

The other guy hit the nail on the head. Most developers aren't designers, and in fact they tend to think in ways that are the opposite of aesthetically pleasing. It's why there are so few developer/designers (I'm one of them).

The problem with design is that it is something that is not easy, but it SEEMS easy, because everyone has an opinion, and they think it's just as valid as anyone else's, even a professional designer. This isn't true. The people who designed the first 15 years of Linux interfaces should have never been allowed to design anything.

It's like the other guy said - if you optimized code and a designer came in and ripped out everything you did, rewrote it to be more "aesthetically pleasing", you would be pissed. If it happened twice, you'd throw a fit, and if it happened again you'd be done.

There needs to be a distinct process in place for contributing that doesn't include a programmer redesigning things before they get put into place. If the developer was competent to design, there would have been no need for the designer in the first place.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#87

Post by lovskogen »

us wrote: post #33
Sirupsen wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely easier for developers to contribute to open source projects, they can just dig into the code and easily contribute patches. Designing for a project requires a lead to a greater extent to keep the design consistent, whereas programming is more defined and concrete work: "This is wrong, fix it." If the issue no longer occurs after the patch is applied, work is done. Design work is more abstract in that…

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree (btw, I'm not the one that downvoted you; I don't have that option). Why should I contribute to an open source project when I can do something like design a simple killer wordpress theme that may gain major adoption and use that as reference for my work than a single open source project catered to a single developers open source work that may or may not get used heavily. That or is o…

Contributing to an open source project, an application is far, far better for you to grow as a designer. But more challenging.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#88

Post by tzs »

The same question could be asked about documentation writers. Most of the reasons given here as to why it is hard to get designers apply to documentation writers, too.

For open source games, the same question could also be asked for music composers, and again most of the same answers apply.

It might better to ask why is it so easy to get coders to contribute.

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#89

Post by lovskogen »

Mushon wrote: post #32

Replicatorblog's response made very good points. Though I think the FLOSS community should start by appreciating the huge differences between developing code and developing design. I am a designer and a FLOSS guy and I have actually researched this subject a lot, both in practice, in writing and in teaching. The essay I written for Smashing Magazine a few months ago might be relevant in this context, it is called "Th…

Good research work, the article looks interesting – I'll watch the video too. Looks like you do alot of stuff, what are you working on now?

Re: Designers, how do we get you guys to contribute to open source projects?

#90

Post by recurrie »

Reframe the question: How would you get designers to start open source projects? The open source world is pretty much structured around serving the needs of those who can code.

In the field I work in, designers and developers have equal standing, and need to create a middle ground of shared workflow, technology and design processes that balance development and design.

In most open source projects, there are too many barriers to entry (real or perceived) for designers to see themselves as participants. Everything from version control systems that don't provide any real benefit for visual designers to project leaders that see design as "eye candy" all reduce the appeal to designers.

Remember, too, that designers have loads of options if they want to work for free. You know all those "Build a Facebook clone over the weekend, it will look great on your resume" jobs on Craigslist? Designers get that kind of pitch ("Design us something for free; it will look great in your portfolio") constantly. Open source projects looking to recruit designers need convey some tangible benefit to participating.

In the design world, peer recognition doesn't come out of working on open source projects that their designer colleagues have never heard of. Every designer I know of will jump at the opportunity to do really great work, for free if necessary. Looking at the open source projects I'm familiar with, few of these look like the kinds of places where a designer would expect to create really great work.

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