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I got my file from Clearview AI

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Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#211

Post by meowface »

sgarman wrote: post #210
meowface wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Otherwise, this is just a vector for any person to exploit the process and freely play cop by uploading a photo of someone they're trying to track.

But isn't that whole value of their service?

Yes, but the value is to provide that in exchange for money, and ostensibly only to law enforcement agencies and similar organizations. (If you try to sign up on their website, it says "Clearview is available to active law enforcement personnel" and that you need to apply for access.) If you're a random citizen and can get the same data, especially for free, the value proposition breaks. And the privacy implications would be worse.

So, I get why they ask for ID, even though I also get the reluctance to give them your ID since it could help tune their system.

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#212

Post by brandonmenc »

drivebycomment wrote: post #208

A related thought experiment. What if Google or Bing build an image search service based on the face recognition ? If you don't like that idea, how about doing that for celebrities and public figures? If you are ok with one but not the other, what would be a good line distinguishing them and guiding principle? If you are not ok with either or ok with both, why? More I think about it, more I lean toward allowing both,…

> If you are ok with one but not the other, what would be a good line distinguishing them and guiding principle?

Because celebrity by definition requires trading privacy for fame, and is almost always a decision.

We need a new legal classification for "public, but not accessible by everyone in the world for the rest of time" information, which is what most regular people assume or desire for themselves.

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#213

Post by RedFoxMechanic »

air7 wrote: post #202

The thorny issue here is that this is all public information put forth willingly by people. These are not leaked medical records. In a way these abilities are like a person saying "hmm isn't that the guy from that thing a while back?" What are the limits of what is allowed to do with public data? I don't have a clear opinion.

I think about it like this: what would happen if you did this manually, at the same scale? If I went around asking every single person you've ever met if they could provide any pictures in which you're in the background, and collected them all and sold them as a collection, i'd be borderline harassing/stalking you. Not necessarily straight up illegal, but maybe in some ways? That's what this is, digitally.

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#215

Post by heavyset_go »

fg6hr wrote: post #29

It's interesting how collecting or distributing files with music is a grave crime and corporations can take down anything they don't like with a half-assed DMCA request, with no repercussions for "mistakes", but a person's face image doesn't belong to that person and the same corporations can safely collect and distribute these images for profit.

> but a person's face image doesn't belong to that person and the same corporations can safely collect and distribute these images for profit.

The irony is that companies like Facebook, Twitter, etc are really bothered when another business scrapes profiles to mine data uploaded to those sites.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that one of these companies gets sued by them for "stealing" content they host and violating the licenses for user content they grant themselves via their ToS.

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#216

Post by njkleiner »

air7 wrote: post #202

The thorny issue here is that this is all public information put forth willingly by people. These are not leaked medical records. In a way these abilities are like a person saying "hmm isn't that the guy from that thing a while back?" What are the limits of what is allowed to do with public data? I don't have a clear opinion.

> These are not leaked medical records. In a way these abilities are like a person saying "hmm isn't that the guy from that thing a while back?"

That's why I don't think there is much of a point in trying to prevent people (e.g. by law) from crawling and using data in this fashion.

I feel like the only reasonable solution here would be to force these companies to rebuild their databases by legally limiting the lifetime of such data.

That way people have a chance to remove themselves from the database by changing/deleting their online profiles without having to use legal measures like GDPR requests. People wouldn't even have to be aware of any individual database they might be part of; they would be removed from it automatically at some point.

Another benefit of this would be that the pure cost of constantly re-crawling a giant dataset could act as a limiting factor and therefore prevent abuse.

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#217

Post by RonanTheGrey »

gertrunde wrote: post #101
JDulin wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just for the record, the journalist who broke the story on Clearview noted that Clearview AI has specifically demonstrated it isn't fooled by thispersondoesnotexist.com: https://twitter.com/kashhill/status/1218542846694871040?s=20 You won't be giving them any info on you, but you won't be confounding them either.

I'm not sure what is not working-as-intended here? Run facial recognition against computer generated face, got no matches. Surely that is the expected and intended result from both parties? Or is it expected to match against a different face?

It's the fact that it returned no matches, that indicates it isn't fooled. If it were fooled, it would have associated those faces with the accounts that use them (assuming anyone is using the, which they probably are).

By returning no accounts, it demonstrates their AI isn't using those faces for identification.

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#218

Post by Tempest1981 »

shmageggy wrote: post #81
yeswecatan wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more incredible that it requires a picture of your ID

It makes sense to me. This is a database keyed by facial images. They don't know your name with certainty. The only way to look you up in the database is by face. Then presumably they need the ID to make sure it's you who's requesting the info. Hard to imagine how else to do it, given the nature of the technology.

How much would you worry about your ID being leaked, if/when Clearview AI is hacked into? What can be done with the info?

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#219

Post by gentleman11 »

air7 wrote: post #202

The thorny issue here is that this is all public information put forth willingly by people. These are not leaked medical records. In a way these abilities are like a person saying "hmm isn't that the guy from that thing a while back?" What are the limits of what is allowed to do with public data? I don't have a clear opinion.

This public information includes security cam footage. It’s not up to us if people film us, the cameras are everywhere

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#220

Post by stiray »

justaguyhere wrote: post #152
stiray wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replacing pictures wont help (they already have them), GDPR request for deletion might work better but on the other side you also give them your confirmed identity. With companies as shady as this one, they might just set a flag in their database and add your documents data to them. As you have figured out on your own, public should listen to some people warning about this for more than decade instead of making fun f…

GDPR request for deletion might work better Dumb question - how can anyone be sure that companies actually delete the data? What about the backups, what happens to the data there? How do these govt enforcers verify this? Also, what about Clearview's employees abusing the data? what stops them from snooping on someone they are interested in?

It is actually not stupid. Nothing stops them except a liability for a hefty fine if they are cought. In same manner as nothing stops criminal from stealing your car. But there might be a jail sentance that deters him from doing it. Some cars will be stolen, some criminals cought and jailed. Sure, car has locks. It is preventive measure. Same as not uploading your personal data/pictures/... to "public" servers.
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