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CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any official fork?

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Re: CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any official fork?

#141

Post by SaxonRobber »

Chris2048 wrote: post #137
iakov wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He just can't add such adverts to the codebase. I'm curios why do you think that. If the codebase is a fruit of his efforts, why shouldn't he do as he wants with it? I would understand that in cases where a maintainer adds malicious code - but that's not the case here. Author asks for donations, the only negative effect of it is NPM logs getting longer. I think he's well within his moral rights here.

Why can't he add malicious code then? It's his code, right? Who decides who can, and cannot advertise? There are many ways to solicit donations - the problem here is he chose to go against convention and put those ads in a common space. Does every other contributor of JS packages not have this right to advertise? Perhaps NPM requires specific rules against advertisement, but the moral aspect wrt is "this is why we ca…

Then fork it and remove the message yourself. Sitting on your hands and moaning about the size of your logs being “immoral” is peak entitlement. He doesn’t owe you or npm shit.

Re: CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any official fork?

#142

Post by vbezhenar »

Aeolun wrote: post #134
caf wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is worth remembering that the speed limit is not an "it is always safe to drive this speed here" advisory. In particular if your vision is obstructed (perhaps by very heavy rain, fog, or an oncoming car with high beams) then you may need to slow down considerably.

If there's an oncoming car with high beams on a straight empty road I'm more inclined to speed up so I pass them by faster.

If you're blinded, you should slow down or even stop until you'll be able to see again. Driving blinded is irresponsible.

Re: CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any official fork?

#143

Post by Chris2048 »

SaxonRobber wrote: post #141
Chris2048 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't he add malicious code then? It's his code, right? Who decides who can, and cannot advertise? There are many ways to solicit donations - the problem here is he chose to go against convention and put those ads in a common space. Does every other contributor of JS packages not have this right to advertise? Perhaps NPM requires specific rules against advertisement, but the moral aspect wrt is "this is why we ca…

Then fork it and remove the message yourself. Sitting on your hands and moaning about the size of your logs being “immoral” is peak entitlement. He doesn’t owe you or npm shit.

It's not "the size of your logs", it's adverts, specifically.

Misrepresenting the argument, and name-calling, also don't help.

There is also the fact that not including ads would require less labour than including them, even if removing them requires further labour. being "entitled" to correct behaviour isn't unreasonable. IS it OK for me to spam you, because I don't owe you shit either. morality is a society/community-level contract. It doesn't matter what is owed at a labour level, quid-pro-quo is you don't put adds in npm, we all don't put ads in npm. Breaking a social convention should require community consensus.

Re: CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any official fork?

#144

Post by ivan_gammel »

robbrown451 wrote: post #96
ivan_gammel wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that it’s better to stop victim-blaming. There’s no reason to assume that in this case justice failed. Russian courts aren’t perfect, but they are not worse than anywhere but few countries.

When you are sending someone to jail, you want to make sure of their degree of fault, don't you? The person lying on the ground wasn't killed. The woman trying to drag him out of the road was. She was presumably innocent. (although she may have played a role as well, I understand she was intoxicated too, but in the moment she was trying to help her friend to safety) Regardless, who suffered is a completely separate i…

I don’t get your argument. Two courts already decided who is guilty, there’s no process to distort unless you consider this thread a retrial. What happens here is that despite court decisions people still try to prove something and shift responsibility to victims of the incident. This is victim blaming by definition and it is pointless, because justice already decided on this case.

Re: CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any official fork?

#145

Post by MiroF »

jnbiche wrote: post #72
_pd19 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish we were as sympathetic to drug dealers and theft as many on HN want us to be towards a programmer who ran someone over in their motorcycle.

I am. You can check my prior comments on our prison system. I think both the US and Russia should dramatically rethink their approach to non violent crime. Both countries have ridiculously high incarceration rates. I may be wrong, but I believe most people on HN feel the same way. Also, to be clear, are you sympathetic to the incarceration of drug dealers and thieves but not sympathetic to the incarceration of someon…

> Also, to be clear, are you sympathetic to the incarceration of drug dealers and thieves but not sympathetic to the incarceration of someone who accidentally killed someone in an auto-pedestrian accident?

Didn't see this because you added it in an edit. I think we should generally avoid prison time as much as possible, for all of these cases.

I just get frustrated when I often seem to see people defending people with similar social status to themselves, but having apparently no sympathy for people of different social circumstances.

Clearly the consensus on HN is not entirely the same way, as some of the other replies to my comment show.

I am sorry for having assumed intentions that you don't have, though, more trying to comment on a general trend I've observed.

Re: CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any official fork?

#146

Post by MiroF »

joecool1029 wrote: post #109
overeater wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Those people chose to do something bad. The programmer was not doing anything intentionally wrong.

I think this is the correct take from this. It's also one of those situations where US law would be superior over poorly coded civil law (like Russia apparently has). As I understand they only evaluate that the violation occurred (i.e.: person dead, in crosswalk, done by attacker on vehicle). Absent additional information like cam footage showing them jumping out of a bush at the last moment into the crosswalk for in…

> I think this is the correct take from this.

The correct take is jail time for non-violent crime and no jail time for programmers who (regardless of whether we believe his story) killed someone?

Re: CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any official fork?

#147

Post by MiroF »

garborg wrote: post #129
MiroF wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a statistic that's great to pass around but I have read that drunk pedestrian walking is more dangerous than drunk driving (to the driver). Taking an uber is always the move.

Perhaps reading Super Freakonomics? Rehashed here: https://freakonomics.com/2011/12/28/the-perils-of-drunk-walk... Google will provide people who don't like assumptions made in Levitt's math. Disclaimer -- I did research for Levitt and John List when I was planning to go for an Econ PhD, but on nothing related to drunk driving.

Likely, but it's been long enough that I don't remember.

Re: CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any official fork?

#148

Post by lstodd »

dredmorbius wrote: post #87
overeater wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Those people chose to do something bad. The programmer was not doing anything intentionally wrong.

In 2020 hindsight, operating a motor vehicle in conditions and a manner resulting in the death of a human being represents at the least negligence. Circumstances as described possibly mitigating some aspects of this, but driving (or motorcycle riding) is an inherently and widely known dangerous activity. Situational awareness is a requisite practice.

So I choose to jump off of an overpass and happen to land straight in your vehicle's path and now you're somehow negligent?

Re: CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any official fork?

#149

Post by TAForObvReasons »

cycomanic wrote: post #100
SaxonRobber wrote: post #66

Jesus npm is a cancerous dumpster fire. Guy must have been a saint to continue maintaining the project in spite of all of entitled "developers" using his package and scolding him for DARING TO ASK FOR A DIME.

Actually, while I think npm is the worst example, I am of the opinion that this is the largest issue facing OSS today. Companies using lots of OSS packages without ever giving back a dime. The argument is always that this helps developers get a job, but often enough the jobs don't allow the developers to work full time on those packages, but they are still somehow expected to continue the work in their past-time. The…

On the other side, GitHub minted 3 billionaires in the acquisition by Microsoft! Chris Wanstrath walked away with 1.8B and probably would have been best positioned to defend the community which enabled the exit. Funny how the open source ecosystem mirrors the world at large

Re: CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any official fork?

#150

Post by SaxonRobber »

Chris2048 wrote: post #143
SaxonRobber wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then fork it and remove the message yourself. Sitting on your hands and moaning about the size of your logs being “immoral” is peak entitlement. He doesn’t owe you or npm shit.

It's not "the size of your logs", it's adverts, specifically. Misrepresenting the argument, and name-calling, also don't help. There is also the fact that not including ads would require less labour than including them, even if removing them requires further labour. being "entitled" to correct behaviour isn't unreasonable. IS it OK for me to spam you, because I don't owe you shit either. morality is a society/communi…

What planet do you live on? The one I am from is filled with tech companies making money selling ads and user data without scruple. But god forbid someone providing their labor gratis would DARE ask for a piece of it.

Why should an individual contributor not be allowed to partake in that, when the people who are using his work are making money off it?

A social convention, who put you in charge of that? There are plenty of bad conventions in this world, no one should be obligated to follow them.

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